I came up with an idea yesterday...
As there are so many different packs available in so much different difficulty ratings,wouldn't it be possible to make a "real" lemmings version and a real "ONML" version by filling the "levelxxxx.dat" files from the original lemmings and ONML with custom-made levels?

If it's possible,we could nominate certain levels from other players for a certain difficulty cathegory (fun,tricky,taxing or mayhem) and off course for ONML levels tame,crazy,wild,wicked and havoc.

Nominated levels should be "reviewed" by the nominator to explain why he nominates that level.If there are too many nominations we can do a poll or something like that,and of course no-one can nominate his (or her) own levels.

For practical reasons,all "part 2" levels should be renamed in the modified lemmings version unless the level does appear twice in the complete set (which is unlikely to happen).

Sounds good to me ;)

Good idea :) I think we should make some new levels specifically for the remake however. I'd be happy to do the inevitable tutorial levels like "Just dig" and "Tailor made for blockers", for instance.

Do we have the means to edit the data for duplicate levels? Remember that 40 levels in Lemmings are duplicates which aren't stored as normal levels.

Of course, this isn't a problem if we did this with ONML.

It would be interesting to attempt a "perfect" difficulty curve though.

Actually, with a bit of work, we could have our own custom dificulty levels.

Besides which, compiling 20 "tame" difficulty levels is just boring  :P

I don't think anyone on the forum is interested in 50 levels in total in the trend of "just dig" :)
We can start off with levels of an actual difficulty rating of at least "tricky" ;)

Hey, great idea. I'd be more than happy to submit some of my old/new levels for this. Although, I'd need that version of LemEdit with mouse support for XP (I've yet to download it, for whatever reason) before I create any new levels.

Maybe; personally, I enjoy making "fun" difficulty levels, and I especially enjoy making easy and hard versions of the same level (like on the original game). "Tame" difficulty, though, is just boring.

Don't understand me wrong,I do like the fun levels where you have the ability to try multiple solutions on an easy version of a re-occuring hard level :)

I just don't like those fun levels where you don't have multiple solutions for (like just dig,now use floaters,tailor made for blockers,...).

We should avoid tedious levels with lots of straight building (like "heaven can wait") or too many bomber timing (like havoc 20) for I think :)

One proposition of me is to have an easy "fun" rating but all with levels with multiple solutions,and not too easy like "just dig",followed by a "tricky" rating to teach real tricks (climb/bomb,...) and maybe a few glitches (nuke glitch,miner glitch,sliding/climbing trough terrain,...).
Then "taxing" and "mayhem" to be used for challenging levels,going up to near-impossible levels for mayhem 30.

The same can go for ONML,but only the "tame" rating as learning levels,the rest of the levels slightly challenging levels to very difficult levels at the end.

We can both compile new levels specially for this version and copy levels from our packs.We can calculate how many people who want to share their packs for this version,and see how many levels per author we can accept...I believe every author over here (forum) has the right for getting at least one of his/her levels in this new version of lemmings...at least one level for Lemmings and one for ONML,and a maximum of let's roughly say,10 levels per lemmings version (so 20 in total).

Off course people who want their levels to stay out of this have the right to say no :)

I'd like to strongly urge that glitch-requiring levels be left out of this. It's simply impossible to put them on the same difficulty scale as normal levels -- their difficulty varies hugely depending on whether the player knows the glitch or not. Levels designed to "teach" glitches would be just boring for people who know them -- and way, way too difficult for Tricky for people who don't.

I agree with Ahribar, glitch levels should be out. We may want to advertise this outside the forums, and chances are people who aren't familiar with Lemedit aren't familiar with glitches. Besides, we can be more original, can't we?

I think we should do the showcase levels (Just dig, Tailor made for blockers etc), but perhaps put them into a small number of levels (We could climbers, floaters and diggers into one level, for example).

I have no idea why, but for some reason I unpacked my version and deleted the original. :o So here you go (link) (I know, I should start zipping my files instead renaming them...)

Say, I've just thought of some names!

"Yippee! More Lemmings!" for the Lemmings one.

"Let's go! More Lemmings" for the ONML one!

Ok,I agree,if we want this to go outside the forum no glitches should be involved :)

BTW,nice new titles...you have any idea on the difficulty settings?

Here it is in a zip file (link)

We may as well just keep them the same, I feel we need those titles simply so people will know of the project as something seperate to the real Lemmings. I hope we can hack it somehow to change the title blurb too.

Shall we offically start work on this after Christmas then? We should organise who's doing what too, I imagine I'll do a few Fun levels and possibly tricky/taxing ones.

One other thing is that every "difficult" level should be backroute-checked by a few people altough we can use many levels that were reviewed in the review topic :)

Another possibility than the first "nomination procedure" I suggested is that each pack designer promotes 4 of his/her levels (2 lemmings,2 ONML) providing a screenshot and motivation,then to be reviewed by a few people and modified for this version if necessairy.

Shall we leave the ONML one for the moment? This will take a while, and I think we should wait for the response the Lemmings remake gets before doing the ONML one.

I agree with Jazzem. Let's just worry about Lemmings for now, and only do ONML when Lemmings is complete (there's no guarantee that it will get completed, and taking on too much makes it even harder to finish something).

Another question: Are we using Lemmings graphics sets for Lemmings and ONML sets for ONML? Or all mixed up like CustLemm?

I'd assume the Original Lemmings sets alone would be use for the Lemmings remake, and the ONML sets for the ONML re-make. I think.

Anyways, another thing I'd like to address is graphics set distribution. Remember how original Lemmings had somewhat of a lack of crystal style levels? I would assume the set we make would want to be slightly more balanced, set-wise.

Which yields another problem. As an example, if I were to contribute levels, ALL of them would be straight piece sets (In other words, no dirt levels) -- I imagine this would be more a problem with ONML, where I'd be submitting little else but brick style levels. Maybe each author could specialize in certain style-types, and pool together to make levels with the more underrepresented types?

Just an idea. And I'm all for not including glitch levels in the set, for the reasons stated above.

I also think the sets should be distributed evenly altough I more like symmetrical levels with straight pieces than other levels...

If I'm not mistaken there are 5 sets for Lemmings:
-Dirt
-Hell
-Pink
-Crystal
-Roman

So I guess for the lemmings version,we need 24 levels of each type of set (or 32 if it's possible to make 160 levels due to the duplicates removal)

I think I can provide at least one very tough dirt level (I'm working on it) and a very tough crystal level (title: "Yeah right,you wish")
I believe this version of lemmings should include the remakes of FANL and FANL2 too :)
We may also want to include a few extended graphic set levels...

You can use my levels in this Lemmings re-make aswell  ;)

I'm a little confused. Are we using levels that we already created? Or are we creating brand new levels for this? It seems like a combination, but which way are people leaning?

I think we'd be more inclined to play it if most of the levels were new, and I don't know how we're going to get it out to the rest of the world.

I'd love to contribute, but I haven't had much time or even much creativity for designing levels in a while. I fear my LemEditing days may be over.  :'(

This remake sounds like a good idea. We should probably assign four people, one for each difficulty rating, to decide the order the levels will appear in. Because we are dealing with so many levels, the difficulty curve will be much slower than it generally is in a pack of ten levels. So four people should probably sort through every submitted level for each rating to decide which position it should go in.

I remember having to do that the first time I ran it. It was compressed then so that probably isn't what's wrong. I'll see if I can figure out what that changes.

EDIT: I checked what happens now. It seems that clicking will bypass that screen.

EDIT2: It looks like it only works if you left click and don't do anything else. If you do something else then left clicking doesn't work.

I'll upload my version of ONML soon it it would help...

I had lemmings and ONML from when I was little and ONML works without CD but the original lemmings asks for disk 1 so I downloaded it elsewhere.

Custlemm2?  If not then this program would be bad for my levels, but oh well.

That's an interesting thought, perhaps we could have nomintations for some of our favourite games to be vgaspec levels? I'm sure I'd jump at the chance to do Super Mario Bros Lemmings :P

Sounds like a very cool idea :)
I don't have much fantasy for creating vgaspec levels but I'm sure a few people here have a few very good ideas :P

I think you'll have a hard work doing that; I don't know Super Mario too much, but I remember it as a very colorful game. The limited number of colors might become a difficult problem there. However I'd be interested in the result.
For my next set I'm making a level with Supaplex graphic. The limited color palette gives me some problems: I can only use 4 or 5 of originally about 40 sprites. It uses glitches, but I could also make one level for the remake without.
(Obviously I like the idea of special graphics levels.)

Fairly colourful I guess, I'm sure I could fit in some question mark blocks and a goomba or two, and I could blend two similar colours into the same.

I've already created a few levels based on other games -- Repton, Prince of Persia, FF7, Minesweeper. And I'm planning on doing a Worms one when I find time, too. Those are all for Cheapo, though.

It appears that you changed a bit more than that... anyone else notice the difference?

"rating lame"

Lol

Well, I've made two special graphics levels so far.  One is difficult.  The other one is not.  Neither are based on any games, but I suppose I could make a level based on a game.

Ha, I made a Mario set for Cheapo. Maybe converting one of my Mario Cheapo levels into a VGASPEC format would be a neat idea.

Yes -- all my "special graphics" levels except The Land of Nightmares are more than one screen high, so it would be difficult to adapt them for LemEdit. (TLON uses graphics from the four Lemmings special levels, but mixed on one level, and therefore uses too many colours to be suitable.) However, let me know if you'd like to use any of my other Cheapo levels -- there are plenty of good ones, such as "Zorn's Lemming" and "Just a Minute (Part Five)" that don't require vertical scrolling.

I doubt I'd include Mario in, in fact probably not even Goombas or the ilk, so question mark blocks and clouds ahoy I guess. I'll look into it when I get back from England.

This is a bit off topic, but I've finally made a level.  I'm sure it's unoriginal and probably not very difficult, but I figured that maybe it could be one of the "Lame" levels of the remake. ;D

KINDNESS.LVL

uhhh.... have you ever played onml? That level is certainly nowhere near the lame levels.

It doesn't look bad altough it could use some more scenery (at least 2 pillars on the bottom) ;)

I've created a Dirt set level called "se7en" where you have to save all 7 lems in one minute...
I would rate the difficulty as mid-mayhem or something.
The level contains no glitches but 2 very neat tricks (the razors edge trick and the trick I mentioned to turn around a lemming on steel).

I don't know how to create a screenshot but the level's here:
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/seven.LVL

I've played... maybe the first 10 levels.  :-[


Nah... I like it's minimalistic look.  :P

Hit the nuke button and make the first lem build to turn around. :P

EDIT: I used both of those tricks but I ended up with a basher and a builder left over. I just ran custlemm without dosbox, which works fine, except that printscreen doesn't work. So meanwhile here a really bad picture of the screen. (really bad picture)

That seems ideal, there's very little else the Beast/Awesome/etc music would accompany well, but I'm sure we could apply the normal lemmings music to a lot of things.

That picture is awful. Did you use a webcam to take the picture?

I'll remove the nuke and the other backroute soon :)

I used a webcam. The reason it is so bad is because there isn't any way to adjust brightness while in custlemm.

EDIT: I'm not sure what the quality of the jpg is, but I think it's something like 25%....

EDIT: It's 75%. That's part of why the edges are bad....

I modified my level to eliminate the nuke backroute and the other backroute I detected on that webcam picture :)
I also added a little bit more scenery on the left,I'm thinking about making the level a bit more symmetric (also add terrain at the right of the center).
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/seven2.dat

In fact another trick (digging at the edge of steel) is also involved.


BTW Mindless,I've played your level and it's certainly not easy...people who don't know the use of the pause hotkey are destined to fail every time :)
I hope the intended solution involves using the pillar,if not I found a backroute and saved exactly the 62% I required.

The nuke backroute still works. You will have to eliminate all places where a lemming can turn around just by building.

EDIT: Places so far: a certain part of grass, the top of the lump

EDIT2: I found the intended solution (uses all the skills and all the tricks you mentioned)

I knew where the grass part was and I think I eliminated that in the new version...but I didn't realize the rock I put down there for delay (otherwise dig-build worked too at a certain spot) provided an even more obvious turning-around point :)

Tomorrow I'll make a third version when I have the time...but if there are any other comments on how to improve the level I'dd be glad to read them ;)

Yeah, I understood.  My comment was somewhat meant to be a joke....  Anyway, are we doing an ONML remake first? or is that the only remake we're doing?  I'm a bit confused, but put my level wherever it belongs.  If nothing else, my level is probably simple enough to be remade with another style.

Basically, we're doing remakes of both games. We're gping to go for Lemmings first which will only use terrain types 0-4. The ONML remake will follow, and use
the following terrain 5-8.

Finally after hours of trying I can access this forum...

I made a radical change to eliminate the nuke backroute and now,the level should be 100% perfect when it comes to backroutes...

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/seven3.dat

Any other comment would be appreciated too :)

EDIT: link modded

You linked to the old version. The link should say seven3 instead of seven2.

EDIT: The level looks fine to me.

So this level can have a "go" to put somewhere in the mayhem cathegory later on?

Are there any more people who already made a level for this remake?

Like I said, I've got a few levels that would be adequate, but they're in Cheapo so someone would have to remake them -- but tell me if you're interested and I can provide the screenshots and level information.

I have several levels I can use, and I can also make a few new ones for the set if I can figure out how to run CustLemm3 in DOSBox. Seriously, I can't figure out DOSBox.  :(

I don't know what command prompt I need to type to run the program. I mounted the program, now I need to figure out what to type to actually run it.

I type mount c c: at it says my c drive doesn't exist. What the hell.

I fail at computers.

Ok, I mistyped that line and it worked, now I type "cd c:/lemedit3" and I get "Unable to change to c:/lemedit3" ... BAH

EDIT 2: Finally got it. After about 20 minutes of fiddling. Thank you for your help.

EDIT 3: Hey, first new LemEdit level in about a year. Well, not quite -- I still have to fiddle with the release rate, and I re-discovered the joys of not having the exit on a place where lemmings enter it, and there's a couple of pain-in-the-behind bombers to time (well... one, really. The other isn't that hard)... and it's a Cheapo re-make of sorts with the solution very slightly changed (and the terrain set also messed with), but it is finished, in concept. I tried to make the level as aesthetically pleasing as possible, since it will (if you all like it) be placed into a publicly released, professional-looking re-make.

It's a re-make of "The Top Shelf" (with the Crystal Graphics) and I project it to be somewhere in mid-late Mayhem. Somewhere. Then again, we'll see what everyone else makes.

Double post, sorry.

My first level submission type thing is findable HERE. I am posting this because I revised the skills and save percentage from last time, and want to make sure there's no back-routes I added with this change. Thank you.

I'd be interested in submitting some levels for the fun/tricky categories in the original lemmings.  Those are cool because you can integrate some more scenery in with the course of the level, although the difficulty is compromised in the process.  If you want some say so.  I'll make a lot if I get around to it.

I saved 98% using only a basher and blocker fairly within 2 minutes of time.
Is this intentional?

I've made an extended graphics file but I haven't made a level for it yet. I hope you like it when I make it. :)

EDIT: http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/TUT.zip

I've just made a level with a new extended graphics set I made and I hope it comes in handy for this Lemmings re-make.

No, no, it is not intentional. And I figured out how you did it, but I'd need to make a major terrain revision to fix it. Thanks for the observation.

I saved 98% aswell in just 2 minutes. I liked the scenery of the level. The crystal graphics are awesome. Is somebody able to check out the extended graphics level I made?

Sorry I haven't contributed any levels so far, but tommorow I'm going to make sure I start at least three levels, two of which will be tutorial-style Fun levels and another that I imagine will be tricky.

This thing still going?

If so, I would be more than happy to remake some of my Cheapo levels(especially an Oblivion level of some description) for it, but I don't think I'll make any original ones.

[quote author=ccexplore (not logged in)(Guest) link=1135291547/75#82 date=1136726530Well I didn't actually play the level, but I did have a look at the bitmap you included in the ZIP file.

By the way, is the graphics based on some other game?  I was under the impression that we're trying to make all 4 extended graphics levels be based on other existing games out there (suggestions so far include Super Mario Bros, Supaplex, Prince of Persia, Minesweeper, Repton).  I'm partial to doing that, but that said, I guess I'm ok with using extended graphics that are outside of any existing games

The terrain came from a Wolf3d TC. I'm already working on one at the minute.

Okay, well I'll definately have an Oblivion remake at some time :D

Might do a special graphics level too... I have an idea for one ^_^

Hey, I'm back everybody. Did y'all have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year? :)

I think I'll need to contribute a level, It'll probably be a Lemedit remake of an unreleased Cheapo level. I'll most likely upload it tomorrow. I first need to decide which level it is I'm remaking.

Whoa, Steaver's back?

Welcome back! And since you're under a new username, I suspect you never got my PM, so I'll tell you here..... I beat Absolute Ultimate Challenge at last! Took me an hour and a half of solid play to get right, but I beat it with 100% and ten minutes to spare. I was so happy  ;)

There you go, There are two levels in the zip, one is brand new, the other being a Cheapo remake, although this is the first release for both of them.

I think Minerminute deserves late Taxing, and I think Cannonball should be mid-Tricky, Maybe later because of the bomber timing. What do you think?

I've just been looking at both levels in Custlemm and they look rather nice. Which one is the cheapo re-make?

I played both of them and they look nice :)

The miner acceleration trick is really neat and altough I saved 90% I'm glad the save percentage is only 75% :)

I finished the cannonball level with 9 bombers and a basher...is that the intended solution?

Congratulations :D but it's not really the hardest level, just the most annoying.

I've created another level which uses the roman style (and also those missing thin pieces from genesis too).

For now it's called "the 3 musketeers" because there are 3 lems in the level :)

The difficulty is mid-tricky I guess altough the trick used looks really very funny :p

There are 3 possible solutions to the level,all 3 using the same trick but with a different ending move so I don't count those as backroutes...

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/musketeers.dat

I will be taking a look at this level when I get back home as I'm at college at the minute. Maybe I should modify one of my own levels to add to this Lemmings re-make.

Ok, I am fairly sure I fixed the "1 basher one blocker 98%" backroute to my level. HERE's the re-submission. I think my intended solution is the one that works.

It seems to be the same version? [smiley=huh.gif]

Errr.... ya.... forgetting a 2 in the URL kind of does that...

Link fixed.

The backroute still works: Setting the blocker one step earlier.

I btw solved the original Cheapo version some time ago. So there are only four more levels of your notebook to go. I didn't play them recently though. A lot of great levels there. :)

What do you mean by that? I thought if you place the blocker a space earlier, either the lemmings will turn early or not pass the blocker?

The reason I use those slopes is to improve the aesthitics of the level, although I may be forced to revert back to the original Cheapo "straight line with holes" terrain.

Out of curiousity, which 4 levels are you yet to pass?

Well, the lemmings get turned around before falling down: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/nocdlem_019.png

The four levels I didn't solve are all Hopeless levels:
09: Attack Of The Subconscious
16: Back And Forth
18: 3M
22: Dude, Where's My Exit?

AotS is somewhat surprising, but I can't say I'm at all surprised with the other three. I really think Back and Forth and 3M need to be in the late 20s when I re-arrange the set.

Anyways, since I figured out what's wrong, I think the horizontal floor with holes like in Cheapo is the only way that on will work. I'll change it to that and re-re-upload.

No. :-?

(How the hell did you do that?)

Just time 9 bombers next to eachother so that each one creates a gap right next to the steel (going deeper and deeper).When deep enough bash to the left,reaching the exit.Depending how precise you are,it might be needed to increase the RR to 99 to make sure the lems have a safe fall distance when going into the bomber hole.

I didn't manage Back and Forth either -- I got everything except one important trick, and in the end Steve had to tell me how to do it.

I think I've solved 3M, but I haven't had time yet to confirm that my solution works. I explained it to Steve, and he said he agreed that it might.

I haven't come near solving either of the other two.

Well, you might use those slopes but with a length of 4 px. Or if that looks like too many steps, you might use slopes with a decreasing length with 4 px as the length of the last slope. Or you could split the high fall into several ones with a height of 6 or 7 px and then use a platform without holes.

As for the 4 levels I didn't solve, 3M is the only one I didn't give so many tries yet. For AotS, I dunno, but everything I've tried has failed yet. For the last one I had/have got a couple of ideas, but I'd need to check them out for the complete terrain, which takes some time. I suppose I have to think with the creator's point of view thinking what would be an unconventional way to hide an exit. (Although you probably came up with the idea before you created that level.) Just wondering, will it still be the last level when the complete set is ready? For "Back and Forth", my best solutions I can think of are one or two builders short.
However, I don't want hints, I'll try to do my best solving them.
EDIT: I just solved "Dude, Where's My Exit". I had actually excluded the case I was trying, but then rethinking and having a closer look at it I noticed that this idea was possible and found the exit. @Insane Steve, do you want a 'revenge-level"? While trying your level I had got an idea how to hide an exit unconventionally. :)

@Arhibar: You're also working on a notebook set iirc. Could you send me a preview version of it, please? You talked a couple of times about "Zorn's Lemming", I'd be interested in that and also the other levels.

Yes. Dude, Where's My Exit will be 4.30 when all is said and done. I'm thinking 4.27 and 4.28 for Back and Forth/3M. (4.29 is a level I've yet to design.)

Also, yes, send a level with your new idea to hide an exit in a strange way.

I'll fiddle with ways to make my LemEdit re-make level work. Another idea I had was to make a sort of slope of horizontal lines with one pixel gaps that turned lemmings on the "higher" ground if the blocker is used there but turns the lemmings into a hole if the blocker is used elsewhere.

I'm also planning a few Tricky difficulty levles, you know, something that can be solved in a few different ways but looks really neat.

No, you've got two sets mixed up. My notebook set contains just ten levels selected from dozens I made when I was nine or ten and recently found again; as you might expect, even the selected few are not great levels, and the rest were too poor to be worth preserving at all.

I am, however, working on a compilation set -- a linked series of sets with different difficulty categories, like Insane Steve's sets -- and Zorn's Lemming belongs to the last category of that. Only trouble is that all the levels in these sets use my new styles, which aren't publicly released yet. If you like, I can have a go at compiling a preview and including draft versions of the styles; but I should warn you that it would make a big file. (Each style is around 1MB and there are twenty..... but of course if I was sending you a preview I'd only include the styles actually used in the included levels.)

Oh, you're right, I just noticed I even seem to have your notebook levels.
Anyway, if you could compile the set for me, that would be very kind. I already have the MichaelBlue and MichaelPink style, if there haven't been made important updates for those styles you wouldn't need to send them. I shouldn't have problems with big files. Also in case you're not using the classic (columns) style in one of your levels, I'd like to get one version of it though.
You know my e-mail? Otherwise use the e-mail button to see or here it is: geoo89(ad)gmail(dod)com

I hope to get it ready until tomorrow. I already started the level, but I need to complete it. It btw will use one of the styles of a level of you I didn't solve.
I won't get it ready today, I want to watch snooker now. :)

To stay on topic, I might make a few levels for the remake with a medium difficulty too.

Unfortunately I haven't been using version numbers, so I have no way of telling if you've got the latest versions or not. I'll include those styles anyway.

Maybe some of these cheapo levels could be re-made for the Lemmings re-make game  :P

As I've never used Cheapo,I don't know how these levels look like :)

I think that the pixel-precise remake I made of FANL (fall and no life part 1) together with a few tweaks to the level could provide a very neat level...any ideas on how to make FANL really difficult would be appreciated...as I don't want the level to be completely exact in execution as in Genesis...

There were 2 major difficulties when remaking FANL which took me some hours of my time...
-The bending pillars (LemEdit lacks some pieces to make it easy).
-The thin piece that separates the 2 crucial 2-pixel wide gaps (LemEdit lacks those thin pieces themselves so I have to make them from other existing pieces).

Well, I already suggested that (twice) but no-one took any interest.


I could provide screenshots if you like.......

I'dd like to see those screenshots,but there's one question about Cheapo: is the screen format the same as in Lemmings?

I'm not really sure what you mean by "screen format". One screen is the same size, but levels can be incompatible sizes because Cheapo allows vertical scrolling levels as well as horizontal ones.

I've made a level for this Lemmings re-make thing and I've been trying for the past 10 minutes to upload it to The Lemmings File Portal but the page for the file portal won't show up. Please can somebody explain why this is happening thanks?

I meant the vertical scrolling thing...as this isn't possible in Lemmings,those levels can't be remade ;)
BTW,I'dd like to try cheapo but I can't find a working link/version anywhere...could you give me a link with a version that definately works and also a little bit of explanation how it works (I read about certain "sets" to be required for certain levels).


BTW,I have an idea on how to make FANL more difficult...set the time limit to 2 minutes and shift the "scenery" which is used for turning the lemming around a few pixels to the right so the "stretching builder trick" is required :)

I'll work on FANL 2 too very soon :)

It's finished...I hope some people can tell me about it,as with the "3 musketeers" level I made :)

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/fanl.dat

OK, here are the screenshots of some of my levels, together with the skills/stats info!



(note: there's a hidden boulder trap to the left of the mound under the exit)

The Corridor of Death
Save 25 of 50, RR 1, 4 minutes, skills 10-10-10-10-5-10-10-10
Rating: Fun

The Three Tools of Death
Save 50 of 50, RR 1, 2 minutes, skills 1-1-1-1-5-1-1-1
Rating: early Taxing



We'll meet again
Save 9 of 10, RR 1, 1 minute, skills 0-1-1-1-1-0-0-5
Rating: late Fun

Lemming Dilemma
(remove the block indicated with the arrow)
Save 10 of 10, RR 1, 1 minute, skills 0-0-1-1-5-0-0-5
Rating: Taxing



Cooperation
Save 30 of 60, RR 50, 6 minutes, skills 10-10-10-10-20-10-10-10
Rating: Fun

Up on the Roof
Save 2 of 2, RR 99, 3 minutes 30 seconds, skills 1-0-0-0-10-0-3-3
Rating: late Taxing



The Two Towers
Save 25 of 50, RR 50, 5 minutes, skills 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1
Rating: Fun

Zorn's Lemming
Save 48 of 50, RR 50, 5 minutes, skills 10-1-1-1-4-0-0-10
Rating: Mayhem



Lift us up where we belong
Save 10 of 10, RR 1, 3 minutes, skills 1-1-1-1-3-0-3-0
Rating: Tricky

Just a Minute (Part Four)
Save 80 of 80, RR 10, 1 minute, skills 3-0-3-0-0-3-0-3
Rating: Taxing



From the Other Side
Save 30 of 40, RR 1, 3 minutes, skills 3-0-2-2-3-1-0-1
Rating: early Taxing

The Lemming Tower of Pizza
Save 12 of 30, RR 1, 1 minute 30 seconds, skills 20-0-10-0-3-0-0-0
Rating: Mayhem



Vignette
Save 100 of 100, RR 95, 1 minute 30 seconds, skills 0-0-0-2-5-0-0-2
Rating: Taxing



Behind Bars
Save 6 of 10, RR 1, 3 minutes, skills 3-6-3-0-3-1-0-0
Rating: Mayhem



Just a Minute (Part Five)
Save 100 of 100, RR 10, 1 minute, skills 2-0-2-0-0-7-0-7
Rating: Mayhem



Rhapsody in Blue
Save 77 of 80, RR 70, 4 minutes, skills 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2
Rating: late Mayhem

I guess some screenshots apply to 2 levels with different skills and/or little terrain modifications :)

BTW: I can't beat FANL 2 so I can't remake it for now :)

It's "The Two Towers" and "Zorn's Lemming". Each picture goes with the level description(s) underneath it.

(And it's "Zorn's Lemming", not "Lemmings", in spite of there being more than one lemming on the level, because of the pun on Zorn's Lemma.)

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/ACIDBATH.LVL

Now that the file portal is working, you can download the level  :)

Yes.

The level looks nice but there are 2 things that could be changed:

1)The trigger area of the acid is faulty so you should either drop the acid a few pixels down,or raise the terrain next to the axid a few pixels.My builder who started building at the edge of the acid drowned without even touching the acid which is annoying :)

2)You could cut off a number of builders to make the level more challenging

Other than that the level's very fine and would deserve mid-tricky or something :)

My solution says that as soon as the floater hits the ground he starts building immediately before walking a distance or so.

Ok, I got my 'Exit' level ready. It's small (minimum size), therefore you shouldn't need to search for too long. However it shouldn't be too easy to find it.
Download the level, and the style if you don't have it, here:
http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Exit.set
http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/L3-Classic.sty

Thanks @Arhibar, I'll have a closer look at your levels asap.

The pedant in me would like to point out that the H comes before the R; it's pronounced that way too, "A-hri-bar"  8-)

I've created the first 2 parter for the remake I guess :)

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/highlvls.dat

It's a pack with 2 levels,level 2 has only one small row of pixels in difference but it's a whole other world of difficulty due to moving a steel block 1 pixel up :)

I'm pretty sure I eliminated the backroutes but I'dd like it to be tested :)

The levels are:

Highway to hell (late fun or begin tricky)
Litter on the highway (mayhem)

That is a brilliant way to make a repeat level. Good job! :)

I am in the process of trying to save 100% on the second level. I'm stopping now, I'll continue sometime later tonight.

That level looks really nice :p

Finally I've beaten FANL 2 and it was very satisfying doing so :p

I noticed "total director  A.T" in the ending credits too :)


By the way,I don't understand what people find so difficult in "final impediment"...I solved it very easily and it even didn't take 2 minutes...even releasing the blocker is very easy if you let him build a few stairs and then set him a blocker ;)

Looks good. Can't wait till there's a lemedit version of the level.

Anyway I've re-made my level "Acid bath" a small bit. I just moved the acid a few pixels down.

Download it here
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/ACBATH2.LVL

Is there a Custlemm version of the level?

Cool. Is it going to be for the Lemmings re-make?

Ahribar's levels look pretty good.

CHEAPO RULES!

I just found a backroute for the Cheapo version of "Rhapsody in Blue", @ccexplore, you don't need to care about it though because it won't work for original lemmings:
[highlight]Compress all lemmings except one. Make this one bash to pass the first trap. Use one builder to get over the second and third trap and another one to avoid the fourth and the fifth one. The only thing left you need to do is freeing the crowd blowing up the right blocker.[/highlight]

Sorry for that. Seems that I remrembered the name incorrectly. :(

@Leviathan: I might have a look how to increase the difficulty of FANL, but I promise nothing.

I remade FANL 2 now too,I've became a little bit more expierienced with simulating the thin pieces and it wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be :)

The irony is that puzzling out how to make the level look almost exact took much more effort than to solve FANL 2 after about 20 failed attempts ;)

Clever. Does that avoid the hidden trap too? If so, then all I'll need to do is move it further to the right  :P

(As you might guess, the purpose of the hidden trap is to prevent a "compression method" solution building over the first two traps with one bridge and the third and fourth with another. It just occurs to me, though, that an alternative (though even more dishonest) method would be to turn the first, third and fifth traps into two traps each on the same location. Or just use a row of six traps, though that would involve changing the appearance, which ccexplore really likes, considerably.)


Eh, don't worry about it.

It's left-to-right, and for the rest, I can tell you tomorrow morning when I'm on my home computer again.

Another level,this time in the pink set :)

It should combine 3 tricks:
-blocking lems with builders
-another (easy) method of blocking the lems on the other side
-a very neat basher trick

If there are no backroutes,it could be cathegorized as late taxing/begin mayhem I suppose.

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/bashtr.dat

Leviathan have you taken a look at my level that has just been re-edited?

Yep,I'm afraid the problem is still there...it's not your fault but the fault of who-ever programmed the trigger area for that object ;)

I see three ways:
Block off both ends and repeatedly bash to get higher. (probably intended)
Use the builder turn-around trick. (probably not)
Use the sliding glitch. (no way)

The main trick should involve creating steps by using bashers,and builders to stop them at a certain point.

Even if you could manage to do the sliding glitch on this level,what would you do with the lemming on top of the tower?
I guess the turning around builder trick could work 1 time but you can't turn around 40 lems with it :)



About new levels: I think we should have at least 1 superlemming level too ;)

AHHH! I'm not going to imagine that.....

@levi: I will get screenshots of each solution a bit later.

If "Rhapsody in Blue" is going into the later Mayhem set (which it definitely should be; it's a very brilliantly designed level), I think I'm going to re-make the original "Rhapsody" level (as it stands, it's a bit sloppy, terrain-wise) and submit it also. I think it belongs in early-mid Taxing.

I want to put "The Razor's Edge" in this set, as well, although I really have no clue where it belongs in the packs. I'd conjecture Late-Tricky/Early-Taxing, but the trick will either be horribly obvious to some or not apparent at all to others.

Yeah...... only one won't quite cut it  :P  but for now I've added three more cutter traps, making a row of four evenly spaces between the five demolecularisers. I'm not completely satisfied with that, just because it seems very ad hoc to use hidden traps just to kill off a route; but then, the route isn't one the player should be encouraged to even think about.......

Hmm, I just notice a backroute for the LemEdit remake of Rhapsody in Blue.  It doesn't work in Cheapo because the glitch is CustLemm/Lemmings only:

[highlight]From entrance, dig some ways, then bash to the right until you're past the traps.  Turn the bashing in the midst of one of his bash strokes to a builder.  By interrupting his bash stroke at the right time, it's possible to leave only a small "dent" into the end of the bash tunnel, such that the narrowest part of the dent is one pixel in height.  Let some other lemming build facing right while inside the one-pixel part of the dent, he will then get trapped inside the wall.  Make him a climber.  Due to the CustLemm/Lemmings glitch, he will be able to climb up thru the terrain.  Let that lemming walk towards the exit, then have him mine into the steel block near the exit to turn him around.  Now have him use miners and/or bashers to complete a path to the exit.[/highlight]

The saving grace is that one of the moves involved needs to be timed fairly precisely so it's not exactly trivial.  And if we include people not in this forum as the target audience for our Lemmings remake set, perhaps not too many people would know of the glitch used involving the climber.  Still, many of you here know of it.

Please contribute ideas on how best to eliminate this backroute.

I don't understand  :(  Isn't the ground under the entrance metal? So how can you dig there?

Would something like this be possible? (I don't know how the climber glitch works, so this is just an idea....)

Block before the traps, and send one athlete over the arch. Dig down to the crystal ground and bomb. Meanwhile send a climber up the arch and have him dig away half the right pillar; bomb away the other half, and bash the left pillar. Bash under the entrance and traps, build to stop bashing. When the climber enters the "dent" at the end of the tunnel, as in your backroute attempt, build again to trap him inside the wall. Mine into the metal to turn round and again to save the other lemmings.

Though even if it does work, it's questionable whether it qualifies as a backroute. You can't save more than 77/80 and it uses just one skill less than the main solution. Although you do save a blocker, so you don't have to use a timed bomb to blow away the other half of the pillar, making execution a lot easier.....

Hmm. I agree that it isn't a backroute, but not just because of the arch. The main thing for me is that you still need to be careful with your skills -- each one has to be used in a certain place and it's hard to find the route because the most obvious things to try (e.g. making the digger build to turn round, or mine down to the metal one the left) run out of one skill or other.


Damn!  :'(  I hadn't thought of that, but you're right, of course. So how can the main solution be rescued, without doing anything really destructive like adding a third climber?

Hmm. Just so long as that doesn't make it possible to bypass the traps by digging / blowing the ground under the triggers.....

Is the Custlemm version of Rhapsody in blue able for download yet?

:)  Wonderful!

Will you continue with the MIDIs after that, or do you have other things to do?

The sliding glitch doesn't help because the digger has to be used on the right group. So there are two ways. I'll get to screenshots at some point...

EDIT: The solution that involves turning around is too difficult to be any concern. Here's a screenshot of what was probably intended: screenshot
I accidentally lost one to the trap, but that could have been avoided.

Ah, that's OK.  ::)  Just so long as you weren't idling about!

Just so you know, if you do remake some of the others (and I'd be very happy if you did), I've made a slight change to "Lift us up where we belong" / "Just a Minute Part Four" to eliminate a couple of backroutes. I changed the square metal plate under the trapdoor to a vertical rectangular one, still touching the wall with a space on its left.

Oh, and I found a 100% solution to "We'll meet again"! I surprise myself sometimes......

I think it's possible tempering with the blocker feeld however timing a specific bomber must be pixel-precise so I guess it's nearly impossible to destroy the steel.

However breaking the steel might be possible with a bomber from above and a bomber from below...I'll try that later :)

What is the intended solution to this level?

I did it :)
96% saved within 3 minutes leaving a spare floater and climber.

I guess my solution was very difficult to pull off but it worked (I played in plain dos so I couldn't make a screenshot :()
Here's what I did:

[highlight]-Make the first lem a blocker somewhere before the traps.
-Set a bomb on the second lemming and have a third one climb up the tall structure.
-The bomber should have destroyed large parts of the steel and the climber should be turned around by a builder once on top the structure by building to the crystals.
-The climber builds towards the sphere and digs down when he's beyond the traps and is made a floater.
-Once the lem is down,have him turn around on the edge of the steel block and mine down when he goes the other direction.
-Have him bash once he's sufficiently deep under the steel blocks (when bashing under the steel no "regular" terrain should remain under the steel blocks.
-Bomb the basher and time the bomber so that he explodes right under the crater of the first bomber.
-Set a blocker at the bottom of the crater and use the steel failiure glitch to remove the last 3 pixels of steel and remove the blocker if he isn't released by himself (by using the last basher).[/highlight]

It was very fun to see this actually working :)

The scenery of the level is quite cool. I haven't passed the level yet but I'll try and pass it later.

Hmm, that's an annoying backroute. I'm glad it's not my job to work out how to fix it!  :P

I'll put the intended solution on a webpage, so you don't have to see it but you can look if you want to. The address will be http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/Rhapsody.html

On second thought, that won't help:

[highlight]Instead of turning around using a builder on top of the arch, let the lemming go over the arch and mine to turn around.  Later once you get past the sphere, when you dig down to get to lower ground, build on thin air once you dig thru, so that you turn yourself around to face left before floating down to the lower ground.[/highlight]

So don't be too glad, Ahribar.  I'm not sure at this moment how well I can eliminate the backroute without making drastic and ugly changes.

I think you should just make the change to the crystals you suggested. The fact that it allows a backroute with that builder glitch doesn't matter because (1) there is a backroute with that glitch already, and (2) combining that with the other glitch needed for the solution probably makes it harder than the real solution.

As for how to move the crystals, I would suggest moving the one crystal that touches the red line on the right to just miss the line, and then moving the entire block of crystals sufficently far left.

It might be possible to use the mayhem 2 glitch. I found something that is certainly a backroute, but I really doubt that anyone would try it.

I sent a PM. I really don't see any point in removing it, changing the level could create new backroutes.

[edit]199.......[/edit]

Back to Leviathan's backroute.  How about this for a fix:



This forces the basher to start bashing a bit lower.  It should eliminate Levithan's backroute, since I believe he would then need to apply the [highlight]"steel failure"[/highlight] glitch twice instead of just once, and that would require an additional blocker.

The only objection (if any) is concerning the visual change, what'd you think?

I have no problem with it. Just check that there's still enough space to make it easy for the miner from the right to get low enough -- that bit's not meant to require precision.

I'd be very happy to see "Behind Bars" remade  :P  On "From the Other Side", though, I'm not really happy with the decorative terrain -- I'd like to have another go at doing it a bit better. I could combine that with getting rid of those ring pieces, since I imagine they will be difficult to handle on LemEdit!

I've created a new roman set level which took me a hell lot of time to design...even more than FANL...

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/BASHBEND.dat

If you know the trick it's very easy (aside from some precision) and if you don't see the trick I guess it's impossible :)

I guess there are no backroutes given the strict ammount of skills...but who knows ;)

I certainly don't see any backroutes. In my opinion the solution is rather obvious, but still fun to watch.

I did, and there was no problem.


I'll have a go at redoing the level soon and tell you if I get anywhere. I imagine there's no hurry, since you can do "Behind Bars" and the remaining MIDIs first anyway.

It might be possible,however using this glitch as a backroute seems more difficult to pull off than the original solution so the question is: will it be worth it spending time to hack the game and maybe even alter the original game's mechanics?

I have another question: it seems in some versions of lemmings 1 the safe fall distance is different...in one version the lemmings from the exit would splat in Mayhem 1 (the version I had when I was little) and in the other version (the one I have now) they don't splat.
Both those versions are PC-DOS.

So I'm really confused about the safe fall distances...

I believe in Genesis the safe distance is the lowest of all versions (possibly the same as the first version of lemmings I mentioned) and the highest for CustLem1 (possibly the same as the second version I mentiond).

Well, I sometime downloaded a demo version of ONML because the complete versions didn't work for some reason (I got a working one now however), and at 66px the lemmings don't splat but at 67 px height, i.e. it has the higher fall distance.
Unfortunately I don't remember where I got this version from.

I don't think there is any backroutes in the level. It looks really good. I like the design of the level. I could try and do more levels for this re-make thing.

:-/  Am I missing something, or should "decrease" there be "increase"?

(And my levels are designed with this behaviour in mind anyway -- Cheapo does the same.)

So -- just to get this straight -- in the current version it's possible to have a 1px-thick ledge at the perfect height that if you dig through it, the digger will survive but the walkers behind him will not?

Is it possible to adjust the trigger area for the acid water trap?


Another question: is it somehow possible to add custom usable terrain to LemEdit2? Where is the file containing all the terrain piece information as well as shapes etc?

Of course, it depends on how much work the hack would involve, which I know nothing about.

I'm a bit worried about how this would affect some of my other levels, in particular "Lemming Dilemma" (not that I know whether you're planning to remake that one at any stage). For that level, it's required that the digger can survive the fall from the thin platform on the left after digging it, but a faller can't. Though I guess you can simply make the platform a little thicker if necessary.

If you are sure that level will still be workable, I have no problem with the suggested change.

Yes, but from what you were saying it certainly seems that there's a minimum thickness required for a platform to have the desired behaviour, and I can't offhand remember what thickness I used in "Dilemma" -- besides being a bit confused as to how to work out exactly what the required thickness would be.  ::)

The trigger area of the water is fine,but not that of the acid from the pink set...it seems to be offset about 4 pixels too high...

The second question wasn't remake-related but rather a general question...but how can I get access to the BMP's inside the .dat files?

If you want read access, I can just give you all the images http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/_misc/lem_object_gfx.zip and http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/_misc/lem_terrain_gfx.zip

If you want write access, you'll have to wait for me to get a version of gxplr that can write planar bitmaps.

Ah, it seems that's not a problem; two of the other sorts of poles on that style have thickness 5, so you could use either of them without ruining the appearance. I prefer the one with thin bands by a long way, though.

:-/  No, I'd much prefer using one of the real platforms.

I'll stand on the side of laziness.  ;D  Personally, I think the game engine should be, for the most part, unaltered to make it as original as possible.  Besides, how many people outside of this forum would know about most of these glitches?

In the MichaelPink style that is one of the real platforms; I don't always remember where all the different pieces come from, so I treat them equally.

Looking back, I see that it's a rotated version of the pillar found in (e.g.) Fun 19. I can't be bothered to look through every level to see whether it ever occurs horizontally as well, and of course I don't use LemEdit so I don't know whether on Fun 19 it's a single object or built up in a complicated way. But I preferred to include it in the style because I wanted to include all graphics used on the real levels.

[random]I think I should point out that those rings can be made with 8 pieces each. 4 curved pieces and 4 black curved pieces.[/random]

For all I know the climbing trough terrain wasn't a glich but a well-known sneaky trick...in this case the 2-part level I've made earlier (highway to hell/litter on the highway) would be rendered cumpletely ueless,as it uses this trick (or glitch)...

So a general question to everybody: is climbing trough terrain a glitch which should be avoided like hell or a sneaky trick that makes you think a lot untill you try it out and see what happens?

It's kind of borderline, just a weird part of the game mechanics. Changing it would prevent more levels than you'd think.

EDIT: I think it would be better just to leave the little glitches in. The ones that really need fixing are things like the nuke glitch.

EDIT2: The columb set has different pieces than I thought it did. It will take more than 8. It turns out that it's like you said, two curved pieces with lots of black pieces in the center. Maybe you could get the level data from a genesis rom and see how they do it?

EDIT3: Those rings in Ahribar's level are copies of the ones from the genesis version. It looks like they were filled in with black pieces. So you either stuff a bunch of black pieces inside, or make it a special graphics level (or maybe just change the scenery).

Is the climbing through terrain part of the game mechanics? First I'd like to know which versions of the real game it's possible on. (Telling me how to work the trick so that I can test the Genesis and Mac versions for myself would be a start.....)

Even if it does work on every version, it's more likely to be unintended than not. It's not used by any of the real levels and it doesn't follow from the skill behaviours the player is actually taught.


Not a bad idea. But you'd need to draw up a list of which glitches are up for consideration. Some of us know very little about what the different glitches are, remember  ;)

No, use the normal 5-px-thick striped pieces.

And don't worry about "From the Other Side", I've started on redoing the decorative terrain without using those ring pieces. I should have that done soon.

I meant that many already existing levels use the climber trick. IS in particular.

All the glitches I can think of (that have an effect):
nuke
OWW (miners)
OWW (offset)
steel detection
sliding
miner (bad positioning)
basher
blocker/steel
OWW/steel
climber (temporary walker)
lingering effect
weird_glitch_related_to_the_lingering_effect_that_I_don't_know_much_about_and probably_doesn't_affect_any_levels
blocker/terrain
blocker/object

I might know more but can't think of them atm.

I guess he means the glitch where a OWW interacts with a steel area and neutralize the steel area...or am I wrong?

And what is meant by the miner's bad positioning?
I can think of multiple miner glitches at the moment (about 4 to be exact)...


Another thing: if the climbing trough terrain trick (yes,I still see it as a trick and not a glitch) isn't allowed for this remake, is building to get up trough terrain OK?

Building through terrain is obviously acceptable (c.f. Mayhem 2). If you are referring to the device used on that level, that is.

Are you talking about the modified version? That was sort of confusing.

The OWW/steel glitch is what levi said. The basher glitch is that bashers don't remove terrain in a blocker field.

Maybe it's only terrain on the opposite side of the blocker field, I'm not sure.

EDIT: It turns out that bashers do remove terrain in a blocker field. So what I had in mind is actually a really weird trick!

I sent a PM. It looks especially weird when you do it in a digger pit.

Another possibility to be able to involve the climb-trough-terrain trick/glitch is to implement a level into the fun or tricky cathegory like this one:

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/climb.dat

I could rename the level to "Get stuck and climb" if it still isn't obvious enough ;)

Maybe we could just keep most of the glitches and make levels like that that teach them. ;) That would be an interesting "fun" set....

That would qualify as "Lame".

Hahaha! I LOLed at that. ;D The hell set is good for trainer levels. ;)

Would an invisible level be a good idea for this lemmings re-make?

I agree.

I've edited the level to avoid the need for a hidden trap, by the way. I decided to use a row of seven traps to keep the appearance as similar as possible. I'll put a screenshot up as soon as I have a chance.

With only five traps, there are two backroutes, one Cheapo-specific and one not. In the current version, the hidden sixth trap kills the CustLemm backroute but leaves the Cheapo-specific one in, so in the CustLemm version you could leave the level as it is.... I just think I prefer not to rely on hidden traps.

First backroute: compress all but one lemming, build over first two traps with one bridge, then over third and fourth with another. Release the crowd so that they pass the last trap while it's occupied killing the builder.

Cheapo-specific backroute: compress all but one lemming, have him bash to bypass the first trap, use two builders to get past the other four AND the hidden trap.

I think we should also make levels that teach the following tricks:

-Bashing with diggers
-Reverse bash/mining
-Piercing trough terrain with builder (aka razor's edge trick)
-Dig away the edges of steel
-Climb/bomb trick
-Reverse miners with blockers
-Learn that traps have trigger areas (especially water)

So that the player knows what kinds of tricks to except in the harder levels...however off course always put some new tricks in the harder levels too :P


For the remake I guess the steel failiure glitch (and related) is way too serious to leave in and I guess there's no way how to make it obvious to the player what to do...but let's see what a poll would bring :)

I think another thing we should avoid is huge loads of straight building for no purpose...I've seen too much levels with that ;)

I'm a bit confused -- has the purpose of the remake changed to "teaching glitches" or is that something else?

All the ones that Leviathan listed (except, arguably, digging the edge of steel, and reversing miners) are tricks rather than glitches.

For most of the tricks mentioned I can think of a good existing level that would serve to teach the trick without being a "training" level. "The Razor's Edge" for that trick is an obvious example. I think it is a good idea, for each trick, to have a medium-difficulty level in which there is a puzzle, but finding the trick is the hardest feature, rather than a training level. I guess that's what you meant.

About the electrode trap, I suppose there is a question about whether it's essential to have the exact same trigger area. Most of the triggers in the Cheapo styles have a visible 1x4 area, and it seemed a bit unfair to the player to have the actual trigger be the space up to 7px above the line.....

I said "arguably"  ;)  Thing is, we'd need to know if it was an intended behaviour, and at the moment I don't know of any evidence for either side except for the purely negative evidence that none of the standard levels use the trick. Maybe you know something I don't?

And what do you think about the traps? Should I be more careful about keeping the trigger areas exactly the same as in CustLemm?

True, but the Razor's Edge trick is a logical consequence of the way we're taught that the builder works in Fun 7; it would be a glitch if the trick wasn't possible. Not so with the builder-turning-non-walkers trick.

(My point wasn't meant to be a sufficient condition for a trick being a glitch, just weak evidence that might tip the balance in the absence of anything stronger.)


Ah, thanks. That (which is something I hadn't observed, except for fallers) is good enough evidence to satisfy me  :)


Yes, that is a point. I think on reflection what I'll do is enlarge all the 4x2 trigger areas (which is what most of the traps on my styles currently have) to 4x4, as I think otherwise the discrepancy with the ones that are 8x8 on CustLemm is too great, but I won't make them larger than that because it does seem unfair to me that the lemming gets killed when it's nowhere near the visible trigger area.

As for Rhapsody, I'll keep the seven traps on the Cheapo level, as that's what I prefer for that version, but you can leave the CustLemm version with five (and remove the hidden trap if you're quite sure the backroute is impossible).

Nobody has answered my question yet.

Would an invisible level be good for this Lemmings re-make?

Maybe one, at most two. Something like an easy one to show the player that things can be invisible, and a later hard one to make them go crazy.

I have two quick questions.

One, how does CustLemm work with regard to one digger releasing another? (This could have a large effect on a couple of my levels in which I use this trick.)

Two, did you (ccexplore that is) read my above post? Just checking.

In Custlemm, you can release a digger with another one only if you set the second digger at the same position as the first is, therefore you cannot create steps that way.

Right...... I feared it would be like that.

That kills the 100% solution to "We'll meet again", but the level itself can manage fine without that.

"Just a Minute (Part Five)" and "Zorn's Lemming" have more serious problems. It's possible JAM5 can be salvaged by requiring only 99/100 to be saved, but getting the timing to transfer to CustLemm (by which I mean working out how wide the wall needs to be, where the one-way zone needs to be placed etc. so that the lemmings reach the right places at the right times) would be a nightmare anyway, and we may be better off just leaving the level alone.

As for Zorn, I'm still in the middle of making other changes to see how high I can raise that gap, and I've had one radical idea this morning that may, if it works out, allow me to raise it quite a lot. But, for different reasons, if I use that idea it would be a nightmare to get the level to work the same in CustLemm even without the digger release trick, so the best way out might be to leave it with the current gap height and make the solution you found the "real" one.

Assuming that you mean my solution, I'd still be interested in the idea with the raised gap, I hope you'll get it work for Cheapo. :)

I'm getting a level done for this re-make. I hope it's a good one  :)

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/CYSTN.LVL

I made the level. Tell me what you think of it  :)

I just checked,there are a few bad things I'dd like to point out:

-It's possible to save 75% using just one digger (one of the entrances releases lemmings twice as fast as the other 2).
-The water's active area overlaps the edges of the pit.
-There's one block I noticed to be offset by 1 pixel.

The design strongly remembers me to the level "the room with no exit" by the way :)

I'm not sure what other people will say,but at least the 1 digger solution backroute is something that really needs fixing ;)

When I get the time I will sort out those small problems. Why hasn't anybody talked about this Lemmings re-make idea in ages?

Everyone's having too much fun perfecting Lemmini.  ;D

*bump*

I made a level, to put wherever you want.  And it continues that Lemmings tradition of pop culture references.  It's titled "Life, the Universe, and Everything" and centers around 42.

http://www.ksoftgames.digibase.ca/files/LIFEUNEV.LVL

Probably suited best for a late Fun or early Tricky-like rating.  Stick it where you want.

How's that?

http://home.arcor.de/0xdeadbeef/lifeunev.png
;D

I am making progress! My first external edited level!
Messed it up a little...

http://home.hccnet.nl/ericenzwaan/Links/LifeUnev.png

]http://home.hccnet.nl/ericenzwaan/Links/LifeUnev.png
LOL @ "Button2"  ;D

Hm, I guess you guys like my level  ;D

What's that editor thing that EL opened my level in?  Did I miss something?

EricLang is working on a level editor, possibly to replace LemEdit.  It appears he's got level and graphics loading complete, but is still working on the UI.

I am indeed working on a few things. Graphics loading OK. GUI lots of work :).
When I am nearing Alpha-testing stage for the editor I will open a new thread for it.
Don't mind the Button2 :) It is often the quickest way to do a little test.

Will the extended graphics show up in the editor?

Yes, they will. But not yet.
I have lots of things to do first. After that I will try to support the known formats.
So in the beginning I will concentrate on standard LVL format.
Maybe it is already time to make a new thread? I could use information about the alternative file formats.

I think it's better to make a specific thread about the new editor :)

Now,how far are people doing with designing levels for this project?
I believe we have about 15 levels now and we need about 100 :) (some will be repeats)

I'm busy lately with a thesis for school but I still play lemmings whenever I can :)

Yeah we should make a different thread about the editor as this thread is about the Lemmings re-make.

Is it necessary to create all new levels for this project? I thought originally it was more about compiling the best of everyone's levels into a coherent Lemmings remake with increasing difficulty, etc. But now it seems that everyone is about creating all new levels for it... I feel that if it requires so many new levels, it will never get finished. It's not as if the remake is for "us" really... I mean, those compiling the remake will have had to play the levels to know where they belong, etc., so I don't think many new levels is really a good idea. It would be much easier, and more progress would be made, if we looked for the best levels from each author, arranged them in some interesting progression of difficulty, and compiled that. Then throw in a few new levels at the end to fill in some gaps (special graphics levels, training levels if they're going in, repeats, etc.)

Then, by the end, the Lemmings re-make would be a great thing to advertise for people who maybe just discovered CustLemm and want to check out a well put-together compilation of some of the interesting custom levels out there.

I'm not creating new levels  ;)  But then, my levels have up to now been for Cheapo only, so I suppose they are in a sense "new" by being newly remade.

I think it's OK to select levels from other packs to "promote" them,but we would need a bit more new levels too...let's say like 40 new levels.

On this note -- maybe the levels in the harder sets are selected from other people's packs as they are; however, the easier difficulty levels will likely have to be fabricated from scratch. Or, at least taken from other people's packs with different tasks.

In that case, we need levels from other packs that would serve, terrain-wise, as great Fun-type levels. Ideas?

I've done a good number of levels that would be suitable for a "Fun" difficulty  :)  Just tell me how many levels you're willing to allocate to my contribution and I'll decide which ones to give you!

There's my level for the re-make.

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/CYSTN2.LVL

There was a backroute and a few bugs in the level but now I have fixed them.

Thanks to Leviathan for pointing out these problems  :)

The level looks better now. Good job ;)

Here's my contribution to the cause:

http://www.freepgs.com/snapperthetwig/stuff/twigpak1-2.zip

There are ninteen levels there (10 in the first, 9 in the second), with assorted difficulty. Some are quite good, but some arn't so. Have a look.

Good, that's what we need-- a jump-start on this thing... looks like we've been just collecting levels and doin' nothing with them.  Or is this sadly cancelled?  I would look forward to a Lemmings game that looks real, but with new levels.

EDIT:  My brother's messing around with the LEMRMAKE.EXE and can't seem to get it to take the Oh No graphics sets.  Any ideas?

*bump*

I think we should work on this again.  It's a great idea.

I'm going to round up all the levels in this topic and try ordering them so that we can see what we still have to make.

I also had an idea of, after we finish the DOS version of this, that we use a modified version of Lemmini (to include the graphics, or blown-up versions of the DOS ones) to make it have a wider audience.

Come on guys, let's go back to this!

EDIT: OMG, did anyone see how a did a septo-post!? (double post with 7 posts)  I'd thought the server went out again so I clicked it over and over.

And IF you do try Lemmix 0.0.3 which will be coming soon.

Common people, I'dd like to get this project up and running :P

On the other hand, what happened to the CustLem level topic?Isn't it time to make a new topic if the old one keeps crashing?

Greetzz :)