I wasn't sure whether or not to put this in the Level Designing forum or not, but the other Level List Game topics are here, so I think this makes more sense for consistency. Even though this isn't a level list game in the same sense, I'm just calling the thread this again for consistency.

This time, instead of reviewing levels from official games, we'll instead review user-created Lemmings levels. This topic will be limited to CustLemm/LemEdit levels. If someone else wants to start a Cheapo one, go ahead.

Since Timballisto suggested the idea and wanted his packs reviewed, we'll start with his first pack. (When I downloaded it, the levels weren't even in a pack, just individual levels. Timballisto, you might want to put them into a .dat pack for everyone's sanity. Btw, I'm calling your pack Timb01 instead of pack1...)

To get the screenshots, I just got different views of the level in DOSBox, took several screenshots, then put them together. It's not too difficult to do, but I've gotten pretty fast at it and wouldn't mind making screenshots for different people's levels on request.

Without further ado...



Timb01 - Level 1 - The Iron Puzzle

10 climb, 10 float, 5 bomb, 4 block, 3 build, 10 bash, 10 dig

80 Lemmings
87% to save
RR 1
Time: ? minutes (>10)

Good: It stays true to its name.
Bad: More than 10 minutes? You could finish it in just 1! Also, the hidden traps turn out not being hard to avoid at all.


A note: I'll be putting up all the screenshots for this topic on this server space that I have access to. The other screenshots for this pack can be found at this address:
http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/
File name for the picture is Pack ID (in all lowercase, case sensitivity matters) + hyphen + level number.png

So timb01-2.png is the next one.

cool!  Oh, and after looking through all the pics I realized

"...Man...those levels were horrible!"  well, in difficulty atleast.

So, pick on em all you want- they needed help.  I'm glad to say I think I've gotten better at making levels :P.

I'd also like to note that my levels aren't supposed to be more difficult as they go through the pack.  I don't know how to put levels in order.  What's the order of levels played?  Is it 1,5,2,3,4,0?  Actually, when does the 0 level get played?

The levels in custlemm should play in the order you saved them in the pack. (0,1,2,3,etc...)
That particular order is familiar to the order of the levels in level009.dat (The datafile containing the first Fun levels). Here is a complete list to the order of the levels in "level009.dat".

Level in pack -> Level in game

#0 -> Level 30 Mayhem
#1 -> Level 1 Fun
#2 -> Level 4 Fun
#3 -> Level 5 Fun
#4 -> Level 6 Fun
#5 -> Level 2 Fun
#6 -> Level 3 Fun
#7 -> Level 7 Fun

#8 -> Not Used
#9 -> Not Used

In other words, the order is 1, 5, 6, 2, 3, 4, 7.
The most annoying thing is that this system is not consistent in all the packs. Lemmings loads each level pack differently (See "Mike, I want to ask you" topic). When I find the orders of other packs I'll let you know.

Levels #8 and #9 are not used in any of the level00X.dat files.

Oh, and Shvegait, there is already a cheapo level list game.

While this is true, only the "Crazy" set was reviewed, because they were the levels that came bundled with Cheapo. But yes, perhaps it should just be adapted to review other levels as well. Not sure what I was thinking :P

Timballisto, your levels were in a zip file with level names "Jeff1", "Jeff2", etc. I just put those in order in the set, and that's how they are numbered here. If that's unsatisfactory feel free to change it, it's your set after all. Not all levels have to necessarily be in order of increasing difficulty, though.

This looks like a fun game! Are we reviewing all the levelpacks, one after the other, from each designer, or just one at a time? Like, we could do all Timbalisto's packs, then all of the next member, or we could just do his first pack, then somebody else's pack, and so on. Anyway . . .


 Timb01 Level 2 - Lemmings on the Roof
 Save: 75/80
 Time: 8 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Climbers: 1
   Floaters: 1
   Bombers: 2
   Blockers: 3
   Builders: 8
   Bashers: 1

 Good: Much more of a puzzle that the previous level, and a nice built up layout.
 Bad: The actual solution is more boring than the apparent route!

 Also, we could each extract images of our own levelpacks and send them to Shvegait if we want them reviewed. I'll have to find time to do mine later on . . .

Conway, I was thinking of going one pack at a time and then switching up the authors (or maybe a couple of packs at a time, but not necessarily all of them). This way we spread the feedback around, and also are able to keep everyone involved. If we were to do all of your levels in a row, for example, we'd be here for quite a long time, and you'd be unable to participate (though I'm sure it still would be interesting to you)... know what I'm saying?

About images, I don't mind going through everyone's packs and taking screenshots, etc. I've got a pretty fast and consistent method for doing this and it really only takes a minute or two for each level, depending on size of course. Plus my classes are just ending now and I'll have a bit of free time to kill for a little while.




Timb01 - Level 3:  Lost mines - Through the furnace

2 blockers, 20 builders, 5 bashers

80 Lemmings
87% to save
RR: 20
Time: 7 minutes

Good: The starting area is interesting. It can be tough to isolate the lemmings, especially if you're going for 100%. Also, you only have a limited number of bashers, so you can't be wasteful. This level starts a little story for the lemmings that goes on for the next few levels.
Bad: It winds up being pretty easy because you only need to save 87%. Also this is one of those levels where one lemmings does everything while the rest are held back by a blocker.

I have an idea

Since I was priveleged with getting the first review, I can keep track of this for awhile.

I think we should have a few simple rules as follows:

1.If you want your pack reviewed, say so and which one, and then I'll add the request to the end of the list of reviews in line.

2.You can't review the same pack twice unless for some reason the majority of the members want to.

3.If you sign up for a review, you can't sign up for another one until atleast two other reviews are requested.

For this to work, we should try to keep the reviews moving at a fair pace, as I know several people have made tons of level packs.

Thanks for the reviews.  The bads give good criticisms so far and will help me with future levels.

Hmm, I had a slightly different idea in mind.

Instead of having to ask people to review your levels, how about nominating other authors' level packs?

So I could propose that we do Conway's first pack after this one. It's more fun this way, imo, than the other, which feels like work almost.

What does anyone else think?

That's good for me.  Sure, why not do Conway's next.

I agree with Shvegait. It's far better and more democratic to nominate a levelpack to be reviewed than for the author to have to ask. Maybe the rules could look like this:

 1. At any time while a pack is being reviewed, a member can suggest the next levelpack.

 2. If you don't want your levelpack(s) reviewed, you must explicitly say so. If the author of a nominated levelpack doesn't permit or refuse the review, we can assume it's okay. Otherwise we could be waiting indefinitely to review packs from members such as Jaunjo, Gareth or Steaver, who have made some great levels, but hardly ever visit.

 3. You cannot review the same pack twice unless for some reason the majority of the members want to.

 4. You cannot review two levelpacks in a row from the same author.

 5. As with the Lemming Level List Game, you must give a good and bad point about the level you are reviewing.

 6. As with the forum rules, no double posting, ect . . .

 7. You cannot review your own level, but I suppose that goes without saying!

 I'm okay for any of my levelpacks to be reviewed. I'll get on with those screenshots if you haven't already, Shvegait.

Those guidelines sound good. I somehow doubt we'd ever have a case to re-review a pack, unless it was updated. And like in the other Level List Games, anyone can feel free to make a comment on an already reviewed level even if they didn't review it :)

Conway, your first pack's screenshots are up, by the way.

 Timb01-4 - Lost Mines - Going Underground!
 Save: 20/40
 Time: 5 minutes
 RR: 50
 Skills: 10 of everything

 Good: Nice, short layout.

 Bad: 50%? That's almost insulting! Try 100%; now there's a decent challenge!

 Shvegait, thanks for the screenshots!

What is the quickest way to get screenshots of our levels?

Is it better to get screenshots from LemEdit or from CustLemm?

Custlemm doesn't work in Dosbox, does it? And as far as I know, it needs to be windowed to get a screenshot.

I've done full screen shots-although how I don't know :p

Perhaps if it was opened as a 2KB individual level file in WinLemm, and set at the smallest graphics size, with the window maximised and at a high enough screen resolution, you could capture the entire level at once.

I've just been doing Ctrl+F5's in DOSBox for each level (CustLemm), then cropping those screenshots (they are 320x200, go to Attributes in Paint, set height down to 160) and merging them (select all, copy/paste). It actually doesn't take long at all.

Timb01 - Level 5: Lost Mines - Lemming cooperation

60 Lems
66% to save
RR: 40
Time: 6 mins

Skills: 6 builders, 4 bashers, 1 of everything else

Good: It's not immediately obvious how to save the lower group of lemmings. Limited number of skills makes you have to think how to use them. Better than the earlier levels :)

Bad: Only 66%? 100% would be a challenge. You can get the lower group of lemmings into the upper exit easily (backroute?), with builders and bashers to spare (Easy to fix with one-way walls).

 Timb01 Level 6 - Lost Mines - The Ruins of Lem
 Save: 5/10
 Time: 6 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Blockers: 1
   Builders: 15
   Bashers: 5
   Miners: 1

 Good: A nice and short layout to get through.

 Bad: Certainly easier than most of the levels before it, and far too generous with the statistics. And why only 50%? I saved 100% in just under 1:30, and with 10 builders to spare! Still, it's a good practice level.

Timb01 Level 7: Lost Mines - down,around,through

50 Lems
60% to save
RR: 60
Time: 5 mins
Skills: 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 15 builders

Good: Furthers the journey of the lemmings in this pack. Lemmings have to go in a circle to get to the exit. The volcano is kind of cool (though irrelevant).

Bad: Yet another level where one lemming does all the building. Boring and obvious! Extra time, extra builders, and why only 60%? Also, the terrain looks a little shoddy. (Don't take offense, I know your second pack is better :) )



NOTE: I changed the directory structure of the pictures so they're more organized, in directories with the name of the pack and files with just the number of the level and the file extension. So instead of timb01-1.png, use timb01/1.png. This will make it more organized when there are more files. (So that's why your pictures aren't showing, Conway. Sorry bout that.)

 Timb01 Level 8 - Into the Underground Ruins
 Save: 78/80
 Time: 6 minutes
 RR: 60
 Skills:
   Bombers: 2
   Blockers: 2
   Builders: 3
   Bashers: 2
   Miners: 1
   Diggers: 1

 Good: A nice variety of terrain pieces, and it has a nice no-builder backroute.

 Bad: Far too easy, especaily for the last level of the pack!

OK. Timb01's review is complete. Now on to Conway01.



Conway01 Level 1 - Up and away

10 Lems
100% to save
RR: 79
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 1 builder

Good: A nice simple level to start out the pack. Also a good warm-up for precisely placing a builder.

Bad: Design looks almost too simple. If you forget to raise the release rate, you're 1 second short, and need to try to place that builder again! Clearly that's intentional based on the odd number 79, but it's still evil!


Is anyone else going to jump in on this game? It will go faster if we have more than two reviewers per pack! If you haven't played these levels, now's your chance. And if you have, it shouldn't be much work to cook up a small review. :)

Well, as soon as I get some computer issues worked out, I will be able to transfer files around again.  I can't do that now.  I'm sure Conway has made some good levels-better than those ones I made for sure.

Oh, and a note, if I can get the order in which levels are played, I'll arrange my packs by difficulty...I guess.

What happens to level 0 anyway?

Given that this is a one minute level, if you really are foolish enough to not raise the release rate, I'd say you deserve the punishment.   :P :devil:  :D

And I have to say that, as a person who's not particularly artistic or visual-oriented, I don't think the level is too horrible visually, just a little plain that's all.  I can certainly understand why a level designer would not want to waste too much time on adding pointless visuals, however spectacular, that adds nothing to the puzzle, especially on the first level of a pack (after all, save the best ones for later, right?).

Well actually I do have one specific gripe about the visuals of that level.  I don't like the way he omits the right ends of the horizontal pillars, it just looks really odd to me, and I see no puzzle-specific reasons to omit them.

(By "end" I'm talking about the structure seen in, for example, the left side of the horizontal pillar below the exit.)

Now you mention it, the level does look a little odd. I guess I was still getting used to arranging the terrain artistically.

 Timballisto, are you referring to the numbers beside the levels in Lemedit? The levels are displayed in the order they are played in Custlemm. #0 in Lemedit is level 1, #1 is level 2, ect.

Added a bunch of level pics to http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/ :)

Insane Steve, it seems my versions of your packs are somewhat corrupted (Game crashed on Level 3 and beyond on ISteve02.dat). Is there some place I can find working versions of your packs?

Still need someone to help review Conway's pack...

I don't use custlemm!  

Oh. How do you play your own levels? And do you mean you don't as in you're not willing to...?

Well, any other takers? Please  B)

Okay, I'll do Level 2, but I haven't played anything past level 5 in this pack, so when you're that far you'd be on your own.

Level 2: Don't want to give too much away



Skills: 10 of everything

Number of lemmings: 20
100% to be saved
Release Rate: 20
Time: 3 minutes

Good: Nice and attractive level design, perfect for it's position in the pack. The time limit's nice 'n' tight too!

Bad: I dont know the 'Over' solution.

Conway01 Level 3 - Head start

70 Lems
100% to save
RR: 95
Time: 5 minutes

Good: A cool idea for a level, and it's fun to play.
Bad: A little too easy, especially with all of those builders.

Level 4: Round the bend



Skills: 1 Climber
         1 Floater
         1 Bomber
       10 Builders
         4 Bashers
         2 miners
         4 diggers

Number of lemmings: 64
98% to be saved
Release Rate: 15
Time: 5 minutes

Good: No blockers makes the level a little more difficult

Bad: I don't know if I found the intended solution, or a backroute

If you ignored the whole bend area and went over the top, that's a backroute. That's what I did, but Conway said you're supposed to actually go round the bend.



Conway01 Level 5 - As soon as yr back is turned....

80 Lems
90% to save
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute

Good: Uses a very cool trick. Challenging level. Nice level design, although it's clearly impossible to go all the way to the right.

Bad: It can be really hard to place the builders right in CustLemm. The 90% requirement seems just a little too harsh. Could have sacrificed two periods in the title for "ou" in your. :P

No, I'm willing to use Custlemm.  Also, I'm willing to try these levels out, only I can't given the current circumstances.  I think Custlemm levels play in lemmings.  I think I've tried it before.  I don't have Custlemm.  If you're asking how I make my own levels, I just use lem edit, alt-tab to the desktop, launch lemmings, test, and switch back and forth until I get the level right.

EDIT:  Wait...I'm on my dad's computer...oh duh.  I can play lemmings over here.  Well, time to go get those level packs...

That's odd. Which operating system do you have? Custlemm should work in XP, and every version before that. Not sure about Macs . . .

My Useless Website has all 9 sets. Maybe try there? I have no idea what corrupts my sets -- they work fine for me...

Conway01 - Level 6: Don't Just Dig



Good: A very clever digger trick is required here. A neat looking level design, to boot.

Bad: It's a bit tedious to place the builders in a way that passes the level.

Thanks Insane Steve, those files worked. I think it was because I had downloaded them off of Garjen, and some of their files were corrupted.


Conway01 - Level 7: Change of plan

50 Lems
78% to save
RR: 15
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 30 diggers

Good: A fun and simple level that pushes the "bashing" ability of diggers.

Bad: Lots of pausing to get the perfect positioning.

Note: It's possible to save more than 78% by freeing a digger (time them at different heights), but I'm glad you kept the target at 78%...!

OK, I've added more level pictures of 2 packs each from Insane Steve, Juanjo, DragonsLover, Tumble Weed, and Hubert and Bart (Hubbart). (For Tumble Weed's, I skipped his training pack 00, and I don't have a picture of the 10th level of 02, because it crashes for me...)

We haven't nominated the next pack yet. I'm wondering if it's better to review one from someone who frequents the forum or not. Certainly those by those on the forum could be more helpful, but if we reviewed other packs we could probably do them faster... Or we could mix it up...

So I'll nominate two and let someone else decide.
On forum: ISteve01.dat
Not on forum: Garjen00.dat

I've started playing other people's levels.  They claim I need to use Custlemm, but I find that I can use lemmings and it'll play it all the same.  Oh, and custlemm worked on my computer(s), it's just that I didn't have it until now.  Unfortunately, all the levels in the Conway 01 pack I've beaten have already been reviewed.

I say we review Insane Steve's.  Maybe I can play his levels and keep up.

Timballisto, CustLemm is just the original Lemmings (actually, I think it's ONML) modified to easily read the "levelpak.dat" format instead of the "level00#.dat" format. You don't need it, but it makes life a lot easier.

Yeah, if you want to play custom levels in Lemmings, you need to know which slots are for which levels, because most (all?) series of 10 levels in Lemmings are from a combination of different levelpacks. But Custlemm is better and more logical because it plays ten levels from one levelpack in the order they appear in Lemedit.

Level006.dat has levels Mayhem 4 through Mayhem 11 in a row, but all of the original Lemmings packs have only 8 levels in them, and Timballisto's packs have 8 levels in them so that would work...

I have no problem with ISteve01 being next to be reviewed. It'll be interesting to see how my first levels look now that I know how to use LemEdit...

Conway01 - Stage 8: A Real Breakthrough



Good: I like how the level requires you to think somewhat about how to clear the three barriers. The layout is also cool-looking.

Bad: Timing the bombers exactly can be somewhat annoying.

I tried Custlemm this morning, but I have a question-what setting do you use?  At the beginning, you can say 1-4.  Which one do I pick?

I use 1 (PC compatibles). These are the same choices you get when you try to run ONML. This is what you're talking about, right? Then again I run it under DOSBox, but I use #1 for ONML under XP and it works fine.

Definitely PC compatible.  It's the only one that would have any chance of being compatible with modern machines and Windows (though to be fair I haven't tried out the other options).  Most of the other ones, I'm too young to remember much about them, I think they are PC clones with certain miscellaneous extra features (perhaps mainly for games?).  It would seem that they gradually fall out of favor for various reasons, so I'm not even sure where you'd find one of those machines listed.

Since the game probably takes advantage of or compensation for whatever pecularities and features those systems have, it probably will not work or work well unless you have those specific types of machines.  Whereas PC compatible is more like the lowest common denominator.

Of course, there's no harm in trying the other ones as well.  The worst is Lemmings will crash that's all.  (That being said, disclaimer here that if your PC does explode in a puff of black smoke, I'm not responsible.  :P)

I remember a while back I tried the other options under DOSBox just for kicks. Two of them didn't work at all, and the other one showed up but with strange colors.. I think it crashed after you try to start up a level though.

Someone going to do "I am not AT, but close enough"? Only reason I ask is that level 10 is quite long while level 9 is short, so for people who haven't played this far into the pack, playing through 9 would be easier than going through 10, and then I'd go ahead and review 10.

I played what I thought were some people's levels.

Do any of these level names sound familiar?  I can't find the images for them.

-Flugtag!
-New Lemming Technology
-Frosty
-Under Construction
-LEMMINGS FOREVER ! ! !

Flugtag! is ISteve02.dat Level 2, I think. The others I'm not sure...

Yeah, that's what I done.

I played through all of Conway01.dat the other day. I think I finished every level except level 10, 'cause it seems too much like 'Hunt the nessy' with 4 trapdoors, and I found it quite boring.

Level 9: I am not AT - But close enough



Number of lemmings 80
62% to be saved
Release Rate: 65
Time: 2 minutes

Good: A nice DOS remake of one of the best Genesis levels.
Bad: It's possible to save excess of 70%. The 62% save limit I thought was too low.

I agree Isu, 62% did seem rather low.



Level 10 - Care a little, help a lot

80 Lems
75% to save
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 10 climb, 20 float, 20 bomb, 20 block, 50 build, 40 bash, 40 mine, 40 dig

Good: Nice of use of terrain to spell out the words. You have to multitask, sort of. Couple of terrain traps you have to keep an eye out for.

Bad: LONG! You better not make a stupid mistake or you'll just get frustrated... Also, very straightforward.

If I remember right these are mine. :D


edit:// I just checked:

---------- = Level  1: Frosty Lemmings
IRRTDTSICR = Level  2: Under Construction
VRTDTSAJCO = Level  3: New Lemmings Technology
RTDTSIVKCX = Level  4: Lemmings For Ever ! ! !

The first 4 levels of my pack.

I got past Flugtag but now I'm stuck on "Is so easy"....which, is Not so easy.

So who is going to review "Rhapsody"?

I'm having problems logging in at the moment, bear with me.

Isteve01.dat - Level 1 - Rhapsody



Skills: 5 Climbers
         4 Floaters
         3 Bombers
         2 Blockers
         2 Builders
         3 Bashers
         4 Miners
         5 Diggers

Number of lemmings 80
95% to be saved
Release Rate: 99
Time: 7 minutes

Good: It's clearly obvious that you can't use the compression method to go straight to the exit.
Bad: Waiting for the basher to finish at the bottom.

Sorry, I can't resist taking the opportunity for a shameless plug.

If you liked "Rhapsody", why not try Rhapsody in Blue? It's pretty much the same layout, but it's BLUE! And with only two of each skill it's a hell of a lot harder. (I've shown it to Insane Steve already, so he know he doesn't mind my basing a level on his; but it's had a good few backroutes removed since then, so if you're reading this, Steve, please take the opportunity to download it and have another go!)

I think I tried "Rhapsody in Blue" before, but I don't have any ideas on how to pass it, yet.


ISteve01 - Level 2: The Thin Red Line (Colorblind)

60 Lems
60% to save
RR: 20
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 0 blockers, 10 of everything else

Good: Seems impossible at first glance and yet has a cool solution.
Bad: It can take a few tries to implement the solution in CustLemm.

I can forsee this thread being a long one, maybe even longer than the original lemming level list game, who knows.

Level 3: It's not that easy, I'm afraid



Skills: 2 Climbers
          2 Floaters
          2 Bombers
          2 Blockers
          2 Builders
          2 Miners
          2 Diggers

Number of lemmings 60  
95% to be saved  
Release Rate: 10
Time: 3 minutes  

Good: You can't just bash through, the solution involves going the long way around.
Bad: 95%? You could save 96% without changing the solution.

I might have finished "Rhapsody in blue", I need to check it...

ISteve01 - Level 4: Turning around demo #172

10 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 5 of everything

Good: A short fun level that requires a little bit of good placement/timing.

Bad: Seems too similar to "The Thin Red Line (Colorblind)" and is so close to it in the pack. Plus, it's easier!

I nominate ISteve02 for the next review...since that's the only one I've really played other than Conway's (finally I might be able to do something).

Who's going to do level 5?

I thought we weren't going to review two packs by the same author in a row. It doesn't really matter to me though.

Why don't you review 5, Timballisto? I can't, I reviewed 4...

I will as soon as I play the level.  I need to do some other things first, but I'll get to it eventually.

Added screenshots for Conway04-13, ISteve04-09, Hubbart 3 and 4, and Steaver's pack at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/.

Still need someone to review 5. Cmon, it's easy!

I don't have CustLemm, but I have access to Insane Steve's website, so here ya go!



Level 5: BLEEEEEGGGGGGH!

Save 97% of 70
Release rate 20
1 minute

10 climbers, 5 bombers, 5 blockers, 2 of everything else

Good: you only get one minute, so you won't waste hours on different possibilities
Bad: really awful title, and.... let's face it.... big cheapie.

Really bad: and wasn't it Insane Steve who didn't manage to work out Manclimber United?

ISteve01 - Level 6: Catch-22

60 Lems
70% to save
RR: 1
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 5 climbers, 10 blockers, 50 builders, 10 diggers

Good: A cool concept for a level. Nice symmetrical design, and looks intimidating at first.

Bad: Since only 25% of the lemmings come out of the center trapdoor, you don't need to worry about those lemmings at all. You can even make use of a couple of the blockers and still make the very low 70% save percentage.*

I took a glance at ISteve01.txt, and at the time Insane Steve wrote that, he put a hint in that said you have to figure out a way to save the middle, so I'm guessing he didn't realize that only 25% and not 33% come out of the center (at least back when he made the level).

*In Cheapo, this level doesn't have this problem (save 75/90, and 30 come from the center window). I haven't beaten it there yet, though, so I can't comment beyond that.

ISteve01 - Level 7: >>>>wAy Up YoNdEr<<<<
 Save: 68/80
 Time: 8 minutes
 RR: 99
 Skills:
   Bombers: 20
   Blockers: 20
   Builders: 50
   Bashers: 2
   Miners: 2
   Diggers: 20

 Good: A decorative title, and a nice, open-plan level with a bit of leeway and plenty of skills. Out of interest, has anyone ever managed to save 100%? I've just spent the last 30 minutes trying. I'm sure it's possible, just very tricky!

 Bad: The high release rate can get slightly annoying.

I still don't realise that Catch-22 can be done without bothering the center group in LemEdit. I need to fix this somehow (Make it 76% to save?). Thanks for the heads-up.

I've formulated a lot of interesting solutions to "Rhapsody in Blue" -- but a lot of them either run out of time or are missing one skill or so. I'll get it eventually.

I did eventually figure out "Manclimber United" -- but it took a lot longer than it should because I tend to "eye" my solutions -- that is, I visualizae my plan of attack before I attack. I bet that if I saw my own 1.5 without having known the trick, I'd be a bit unnerved when I accidently stumbled across the answer. Then again, I was a bit inexperienced when I made ISteve01.dat.

ISteve01 - Level 8: Watch Ye Step!

80 Lems
92% to save
RR: 85
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 1 of each

Good: One-of-each-skill levels are always fun. This one has quite a clever solution.

Bad: It can take a few tries to implement even when you know what to do. By working backwards it's pretty easy to figure out. The part where you need the floater seems unnecessary (except to require all skills).

Note: Just because I put more bad things than good doesn't mean I didn't thoroughly enjoy the level :) It's just easier to come up with things to nitpick about... :P

The solution Insane Steve mentioned might save the most lemmings, but since we only need 92% (up to 6 lost), I believe there's a slightly easier solution:

1) After 2nd lemming emerges, raise RR to 99

2) After 5th lemming emerges, lower RR back  to 85 (not strictly necessary)

3) 1st lemming bombs as close to the first trap as possible, so that the bombed hole goes under the first trap allowing everyone to pass that trap.  2nd lemming will die.

4) Make 7th lemming blocker after the bombed hole.

5) Because of the RR adjustment, as lemmings 3-6 goes thru the remaining 3 traps, 3 will die but the last one will remain.

6) Have him do the usual mining upwards.  However, you no longer need to be precise, because you will keep mining until you are about 6-8 pixels below ground level, then you will bash left to free the blocker.

7) With luck, the basher might even stop bashing at the bombed hole, but even if you lost him, you've just saved enough for 92%.

The hardest part of this solution is to time the bomber, but at least it's less frustrating then incorrectly positioning the miner towards the end as ISteve's solution requires.

I think I've revised Watch Ye Step! to require 96% (77/80) but never bothered to re-upload the pack to Garjen for whatever reason. The Cheapo version of the level only allows you to lose 3 lemmings.

Indeed, and my imitation only allows you to lose two, but then it exploits a Cheapo glitch, namely the fact that if you bash in the pixel before a trap you'll go right through it (similar to a trick Insane Steve uses on another level with bashing through a blocker). Unfortunately I no longer have the level..... I semi-accidentally deleted more than half of my Cheapo levels, sets and styles last night....... fortunately mostly all other people's levels, so it will be possible for me to re-obtain them.

Since tumble_weed wanted to continue on with this, and Ahribar said we should get rid of the rule of no reviewing two levels in a row, here we go. I still don't think people should review multiple levels in a row unless there is a bit of a time period between the reviews.





ISteve01 - Level 9: Having fun yet? Good.

80 Lems
80% to save
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 10 climb, 1 float, 20 bomb, 10 block, 20 build, 2 bash


Good: An interesting concept that you have to get to the exit by bombers.

Bad: I saved 95% on my first try of the level. There is a huge surplus of tools that makes it feel very easy for its position in the pack.


Edit: Insane Steve, I just now looked at your solution in your help file, and you make it sound like it is all about timing. Yet you forget that you give 10 blockers, so no timing is necessary, at all! I can only assume the blockers were accidentally added (I mean, giving 10 instead of 1, or some such thing).

See, originally, the level relied on the lemmings not being able to direct drop into the exit. So... ya. I couldn't fix it so it looked even remotely hard.

See, that's the difference between a first pack and a 9th pack, methinks.

Direct drop???  :???:  I can't play the level now, but on first glance it would look like the simplest solution would be to have one lemming float down, then build bridges to catch the fall, then set blockers and blow up a hole in the bridge to open up the way to the exit.

So, which part of this will be thwarted?

There is no direct drop. I used 4 blockers and 4 bombers, though, with the floater and about 7 or 8 builders. I only used 1 basher.. I could've saved 96% if I had used one more basher and 1 less blocker/bomber.

The easy part is that you give 10 blockers!

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, though.

The very, very, very first prototype of the level placed the exit, not buried, directly underneath the one pixel gap. What I thought happened was a non-floater splatted if it hit the ground, but a floater jumped into the exit before one could build ramps -- the idea being that you had to time a bomber to blow a hole under the exit to send the floater down for buiilding ramps.

It all imploded when I discovered non-floaters could exit like this.

If the level were such that the exit were a couple pixels to the right (I know they are moved 8 at a time, so other parts of the level would have to be moved, but hear me out), then even a floater building right away would be forced to exit, and you'd still need to bomb to prevent the floater from exiting.

I might try making a level like this sometime and see if this actually works out.

Just be aware it might be possible to send down a floater facing left instead of right.  Of course there are many ways to prevent that fact from becoming a backroute, just keep that possibility in mind.

:) ok  yeah i didn't realise this topic existed...

I locked the other topic that i made, since it's pointless



isteve01 - level 10 - "Why Can't They Just Run?"

5 - Climbers
40 - Floaters
10 - Bombers
5 - Block
20 - Build
10 - Bash

Lemmings - 80
Save - 100%
RR - 1
Time - 1 Minute

Good:Brilliant level. My second favourite level in this levelpak (first - rhapsody). This is the kind of level that would be really easy if you had more time, even with 2 minutes this could be really easy, but instead you have to find a quicker way. Took me a few turns to realise what to do, took me about 30 turns to actually get it right.

Also the level is nice and simple, looks good, with for whatever reason strange dangly things up the top left

Bad: Pedantic - the top entrance should be moved down 1 pixel and the bottom one should be moved up. Also it does get frustrating after a while, there was always a lemming that turned away from the exit.

oh and Steve what is the actual intended solution for "Turning around demo #172"...I assume that it is just to get the lemmings up the top to build a wall to stop the left lemmings...

B)

Hmm, sounds like your solution is way more interesting than what Insane Steve wrote in his walkthrough for that set......

Ya, my solution for that one is just an unfair trick, although now that I know it can be solved without that trick, I'm a bit curious how that works. I should try passing it without the trick.

I'ma ctually a bit relieved that the level is possible without using that solution. Back when I was a LemEdit tyro, I thought that was a clever trick, but now I realise it's more unfair than clever.

If you're going to try that, I also suggest switching the order of the two entrances and see if you can still pass the level. If that works then you have a viable way to eliminate the "backroute" of using the cheap trick you had in your walkthrough.

I was going to play around with the level, but I need to strongly resist the urge to download and run custlemm while at work......  ;P

haha...i reaslise upter i posted that last night that there was a text file that came with your level pak...

I was surprised that your intended solution was....pretty stupid...maybe to get rid of the cheap solution you should have the exit around 10 seconds further away than it is....(or maybe less) i finished with 11 seconds

My Solution:

Make the first lemming a basher, bash almost from a lemmings width from the wall when he has finished bashing he should be almost in the middle of the vertical pipe.

Build one step where you are, you should knock your head then turn back, just as the knocks his head build again. Do this until there are 4 steps, he should now walk towards the exit.

The next lemming should do the same. build up like this until he gets stuck in the pipe. (you could probably try to do this with the first lemming only, but i used 2 lemmings because when they passed eachother it made it hard to select the right lemming).

Once you're in the pipe make that lemming a climber then the next lemming to pass the group of stairs should bash through them and make a clear path to the exit. Around here you should set the RR to 99.

when you are climbing through the pipe. you should bash to the right when you are almost at the pipe T-intersection...(thats the hard part). This should make a hole between the bottom of the upper horizontal pipe and about 4 pixels from the top of this pipe.

Build up until you are high enough to bash more through the pipe, this should free the top lemmings, this is hard. They should all go to the exit...try not to get any lemmings turning to the left as you cant turn them around.

Enjoy.

and are we doing another pak after this?

No, the best way to get rid of the solution is just to switch the order of the entrances.  That way you start off with a lemming on top which would make it impossible to get 100% using the cheap trick.  And time isn't an issue since you have enough left and you can adjust the release rate to avoid having to wait for the first lemming out of the bottom entrance.

I just independently solved the level (ie. I solved it before your post arrived).  The basic concept is of course the same, but I did end up only 9 seconds left, perhaps partly because I wasn't as aggressive in raising the release rate.  I also sent two lemmings up the column rather than just one, which probably makes things far trickier than necessary (doh!), though it still worked out fine.  I was going to e-mail Insane Steve some screenshots, but since you pretty much spelled out a complete solution I wouldn't need to do that anymore.

You might be able to avoid the problem of lemmings going left if, when you are at the very top and about to break open the way for the upper lemmings, you bash left rather than right.

well going right, i think is easier, since thats the direction you gotta go anyway. You just need to make sure there aren't lemmings between the pipe and the top-right pipe, either that or you have to make sure you build the stairs in such a way that the have to hit the left side of the bashed hole in the pipe so they have to turn right...

The point is this solution is way better than steve's real solution  :P

so...uh...lets do another pak ... ...

Can I recommend Garjen00.dat? I'd like to review the first level if that's OK.

go for it i'll do 2

Garjen00 - Level 1: Look out below!  
 
50 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes  
Skills: 20 climbers, 5 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger


This was the first level I ever played on CustLemm. It had me completely stumped then, it had me stumped a couple months ago, but the solution came to me today out of nowhere (I had thought of suggesting this as a pack, but I wouldn't want to suggest it without beating the first level! So I went and did that first).

Good: Very clever use of the tools and the placement of the three trapdoors. Small, compact, and still challenging (I wonder if others found it easy though). You have to think to use a tool in a place where it is not completely obvious.

Bad: Some of the tools (3 of the builders) must very obviously be used in certain places. That's about it :P

i just played look out below!

that's a really really good level...and i remember thinking that a few years ago when i first played it...the solution definitly isn't any where close to what i first thought

anyway

moving on...



Garjen00 - level 2 - "Look Familiar? LOOK AGAIN!"


5 - Block

Lemmings - 50
Save - 90%
RR - 99
Time - 1 Minute

Bad: well pretty much most of it. All it is is a clicking test, not really that difficult and nowhere near as good as the level before

Good: Nice level design  ;P, at least makes you think about the route you take and makes you take the path with the least turns

Garjen00 - Level 3: Lemming Cathodes
 
50 Lems
100% to save
RR: 90
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 10 diggers

First CustLemm level I beat :P

Good: Really cool level design. Nice use of the crystal set. Plus it's small :)

Bad: The solution is straightforward and ignores much of the level.

Garjen00 -- Level 4: Mountain Rescue

Skills: 20 of everything

Good: You have to save 100%, so a bit of thought on how to trap the pack is required.

Bad: It's really, really straightforward, and isn't that much of a puzzle.

Garjen00 - Level 5: Breakout!
   
80 Lems
97% to save
RR: 99
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 80 climbers, 2 bombers, 2 bashers, 2 miners

Good: Clever use of the mesh terrain and interesting to get both groups of lemmings down/up to the exit. Interesting level design.

Bad: Tedious climber clicking...

uh...don't wait for me I wanna do level 7...and besides I haven't got around to working out how to do level 6!

OK. I'll cover 6. It's basically an extension of 5 anyway.



Garjen00 - Level 6: Terrible Twos
   
80 Lems  
97% to save  
RR: 2  
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 builders, 2 bashers, 2 miners

Good: Good theme with the twos.

Bad: Once you solve Breakout!, this level is a joke... it's essentially the same solution using slightly different tools. It's also arguably easier to execute than Breakout!

ok

sorry about the delay...I'm not busy, just lazy



Garjen00 - Level 6: "Sharing a Climber?"

1 - Climbers
1 - Bombers
1 - Blocker
1 - Builder
1 - Basher
1 - Miner
1 - Digger

Terrain set -  2
Lemmings - 80
Save - 100%
RR - 80
Time - 2 Minute

Good: It looks and sounds as if the level is really tricky. Nice even use of the skill, you need to use almost all of the skills just once

Bad: The level isn't really as challenging as it looks, requires some good timing and precision (well I guess that's not really that bad, but oh well). But the thing I don't understand is the name  :???:

By the way, does anyone know the intended solution to "Sharing a climber?" The solution I used didn't require there to be two trapdoors... They all wind up in the same place anyway. Maybe that is just to confuse you?


Now on to one of my favorite levels from this pack  :D



Garjen00 - Level 8: Death Trap
 
60 Lems  
90% to save  
RR: 5  
Time: 5 minutes  
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 5 bombers, 5 blockers

Good: A level without any of the common staple skills (builder, basher, etc.) that actually makes you think (even when you know where the traps are)! It's also a fun level to explore with such limited options. Seems like the kind of level that slowly brings parts of the solution to your attention the more you play it. This was one trap level that I actually liked, and that's rare.

Bad: In the end, the solution almost seems obvious. I guess this level could be seen as easy or difficult depending on how you approach it. Also, the "10 Tons" traps are kind of just floating in mid-air, which looks a little odd...

Actually, I thought that's exactly how they're supposed to look, with the weight just floating in mid-air.  Look at Mayhem 30 from the original Lemmings for example.

Yes, you're right, I guess I was just thinking of how the trap is used in Taxing 2.

I don't know why the 10 tons traps always seem to float in mid air.

Who's going to review Level 9: "Floater's Round"? It's a good little level.

sorry I've been a bit busy/lazy...I'll do it possibly tomorrow or tonight...:)

When that pack has finished being reviewed you can also review my level pack JM04.dat

That should be interesting!

I don't know what the intended solution is, but perhaps the most ironic thing about "Sharing a climber?" is that you don't actually need to use the climber at all!

Hehe. Wow, didn't even notice a solution without the climber before, but it's actually pretty obvious! That level is riddled with backroutes for sure :P

HAHA I just realised all you need is a builder and a basher :-/

oh and sorry for the delay...I am being held up by what can only be described as shear lazyness



Garjen00 - Level 8: "Floater's Round"

5 - Climbers
5 - Floaters
5 - Bombers
5 - Blockers
5 - Builders
5 - Bashers


Terrain set -  1
Lemmings - 20
Save - 100%
RR - 5
Time - 2 Minutes

Good: Symmetrical. I guess like the last level I reviewed this can be done in lots of different ways, and since there are 5 of most of the skills you could get inventive and create some interesting solutions. You could possibly send 2 scouts each one going a different direction, that would probably push this level up to maybe at least a tricky. You could even go as far as  getting 4 scouts: one to make a path building up to the exit, one building down from the top fire pattern, and the other two doing the exact same thing from the other side. :D


Bad: Easy.

???

Huh?  How?  Is the fall height not high enough to kill the lemmings or something?

Let them all go into the bottom compartment...build up  to the top of the one way obstacle and then get a lemming to bash through the thin column...there's a possibility that might not work, but to me it looks like it should work (i haven't tried, just looked at the picture...

oh...and i'm talking about sharing a climber, right...not floater's round....so yeah

You can get a builder to go up that high on "Sharing a climber?" It looks impossible... Maybe I'll try it...

About "Floater's Round", what do you mean by this:



I guess I didn't find the level quite as easy as you did (Of course it is not very hard), but I played it a while ago... I don't see more than one real possible solution with one possible variant (which is nearly identical)... The builders are the limiting factor in this level of course... other tools are plentiful...


Well, moving on anyway (But I am still curious about your alternate solutions to "Floater's Round"):



Garjen00 - Level 10: Printing Press
   
80 Lems  
98% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 20 of each

Good: Nice level design. You have to think a little how to manage the four different groups. A good level to be at the last level in the pack.

Bad: Long and tedious, without any real puzzle to it.

haha don't worry, if I'm saying something completely wrong don't mind me!

OK. I just tried it, and it is only possible to get to the top of the one-way wall. There are more than 6 metal pixels above this (maybe 9 or so, didn't really count). So that way is impossible. But there are still other ways more obvious than the intended solution (or so I assume).

The level is not impossible to beat.But I found most of Garjen's levels too difficult to beat.

um so we gunna start the next set?

I don't know what the next set can be.Well if you can't think of what the next set can be you can also review my level pack JM04.dat

I'm sure you have played on the levels in that pack.

Of course it is not impossible... We were just discussing a possible alternate solution which is impossible.

If we are doing JM04.dat, I'll need to go make pictures (won't take long). Or does anyone have another pack in mind? I don't mind either way.

I'm happy to do JM's pack. It seems easy enough!

I don't really mind...but I don't think I actually have his levelpaks

http://www.geocities.com/jmjm0052005/JMpaks.zip

Those are my level packs.

OK. I took the screenshots of JM04.dat and played through the levels. We'll be able to review this pack very quickly...



JM04 - Level 1: Deadfall
   
60 Lems  
83% to save  
RR: 15
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 climb, 5 float, 5 bomb, 5 block, 20 build, 10 mine

Good: Several ways to solve it.

Bad: Easy! Also, the center is asymmetrical, and some of the sides are uneven, which makes it look shoddy.

Well, part of that is Custlemm's fault (oir rather, limitation).  Since interactive objects' x-coordinates must be multiples of 8, and since the entrance and exit objects have close but not identical widths, I don't think there's any way to have the exit be above the entrance and centered at the same time.

The rest looks alright from the screenshot, though it's hard to tell.

I have another thing for good: The level design is actually pretty cool looking.

Guest, I was referring to the terrain (not the objects). Both of the side beams have different heights, and the platform that the exit lies on extends several pixels to the left more than the right. Also, the bottom bar on the right side isn't lined up so as to form a corner... it just looks off. Little things, I know, but they are still noticeable (maybe not in the screenshot).

I know about the (unfortunate) object placement limitation  :-(
(It actually makes it easy to place objects at times, though.)

 JM04 Level 2 - Spiders

 Save: 40/80
 Time: 50 minutes
 RR: 50
 Skills: 10 of all

 Good: Fairly good design with the series of webs.

 Bad: Easy even compared to the previous one. Can save 100% with just three bashers. Come on! This is slightly ridiculous.

JM04 - Level 3: Walking along Uranus
   
80 Lems  
70% to save  
RR: 25
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 4 bomb, 3 block, 15 build, 1 basher, 2 miners

Good: Hm...

Bad: The terrain is stolen from Hubbart3.dat Level 9:
(If you got permission from Hubert and Bart I apologize.) But please, do make sure you ask the original authors and/or give credit if you choose to alter a level. This level is easy and pointless. You only need a couple builders to get over the traps... Plus, it's not as cool as the original "Storm and thunder"... I mean, those storm clouds make the level!

The level Spiders has got a good design of webs but it's too easy.

How do you save 100% with three bashers?  I can't see where that would work...

The lemmings walk through the forward-leaning slopes.

Don't mind me I'm not reviewing any of his levels...I looked through them all and noticed a few of them, just like Hubart's, are ripped off from my levels...The one I am really pissed off about is JM09 - 6 Turn Around...my original level of that is what I think is one of my favourite levels I did...and that really annoys me.

and just incase you were wondering the following are also ripped off from me

JM01 - 1 Stalemate
JM05 - 7 Behing Black Eyes

not that I like either of my original levels of those...

actually I guess in someway its kinda flattering...sort of...

remember it's easy to make 15 level paks when you make levels like he does!

I looked through the rest of his packs, and it seems he also stole several levels from Insane Steve (end of JM14.dat, and some of JM15.dat).

The rest of his levels are largely changes to original Lemmings and ONML levels, stripped of any puzzle at all. He managed to turn "Five Alive" into "Only floaters can survive this"... Embarrassing!


Shall we boycott the rest of this pack? Trust me, we are not missing much if we do. The whole pack probably took 20 minutes to beat, and that's just because some levels take a few minutes to beat...

I'd rather move on to another pack than get stuck on this one due to lack of interest.

That seems slightly harsh given that he's sorta a newcomer to level making.

However, that said, we can always argue that since most of his levels are copied off of other people's anyway, by reviewing other people's levels we kinda covered JM's too.  :devil:  Hey, 'tis what you get when you choose to imitate rather than create.  ;P

Anyone mind doing one of my later ones? Maybe conway07.dat or later?

 Failing that, one of Jaunjo's (Lemming 20's) packs. They're really tough!

I think yours should wait, since we already reviewed one of your packs earlier.

Other than that I don't care, although I must say that level from Hubbart3.dat Shvegait presented kinda caught my eyes, so it might be fun to nominate that set for review just to see what else is in it.

Hubert and Bart's levels have some rather interesting and good-looking designs. They are not very difficult, but a few of them use some cool tricks, and most of them are fun to just look at. Hubbart3 is probably their easiest pack, though. I'd definitely recommend Hubbart2 and Hubbart4, but we can do whatever one anyone wants :)

Ah. See, when I read "Stole Insane Steve's levels", I thought the template for the levels was copied and the solutions changed a bit to make the level easier. I load the packs, though, and discover that the levels have REPLICA SOLUTIONS to mine, with only aesthetic changes. While the replica of "The Razor's Edge" had its solution changed somewhat [I.E., easied up completely], the replica of "It's Hammer Time!" is an EXACT ripoff of my level (With one minor alternate solution possible), and the replica of "The Nifty Fifty" has ONLY the same solution I intended in my original pack!

JM, just a point for you. If you want to make a level with the level template of the author, ask the author first, but when he gives permission, make the level different, solution-wise. It's not ok, in any plane, to take an author's level, re-make it in a different style, and pass off the original puzzle concept as your own. If you need help with level designing, a guide or something, ask me, and I can help you.

yep...well I'm pretty much all for doing another set...

and I would like permission or at the very least...some notice that you're stealing my levels...

anyway that being side...I am fine with doing a Hubbart level pak...I haven't actually played through them yet...but the designs for most of them look brilliant!...

and maybe after his we can do a set of mine...but not TWPAK0.dat since that's my training levels.

If you want do TWPAK11.dat its my only set which is somewhat alright...I hate most of my levels. Looking back on them, a lot of them are complete crud...

I should make a pak full of my best levels :)

How long do you spend making each level?

I think that if you put more time into making levels, ultimately you'll have better levels.  Then again I have nothing I really need to do right now so I can (almost) devote as much time as I want to anything.

well usually a while...some more than others

but some of my levels (if i say so myself, which i do) are brilliant...but about half are pretty awful (they were good about 2 years ago)

its really annoying when i do devote a lot of time (such as the last 5 levels i just made) i end up accidentally deleting them...(such as yesterday) x_x...gah I made a level called Uluru (it even looked better than the real uluru...as was a decent timing style level...and the new level i was in the middle of making is gone...blah

While this is partly true, you could spend days making a level and it still not be as good as you would've hoped.

As with tumble_weed I think most of my levels are pretty bad. I recon only about 35% of my levels are actually worth anything.

I am now remaking most of my levels and it does not seem to be going bad.When I finish remaking them and release them tell me if there is anything wrong with them then I can sort it out.

OK. I'm going to go ahead and start on Hubbart4.dat.



Hubbart4 - Level 1: The beacon
   
80 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 15
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 builder, 1 miner, 1 digger

Good: Interesting design. A good short level to start off the pack.

Bad: Has a pretty bad backroute... (I'm not sure if I have an older version of pack or not, though. I remember Hubert saying they fixed a backroute in this level.)

Not a bad level at all.

It depends on if I have an idea for the level. If I have a clear mental image of how I want the level to look, I can make one in 10 minutes. On average, after tweaking, and route-adjusting, it usually takes between 30-90 minutes for the original design and another 30-60 minutes to tweak the level, remove backroutes, etc.

I'll review Hubbart 4.2 soon as I can find and load it.

 Hubbart4, level 2 - Just Dig!

 Save: 80/80
 Time: 1 minute
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Bombers: 80
   Blockers: 1
   Builders: 1
   Bashers: 1
   Miners: 2

 Good: Nice small design with a nice puzzle.

 Bad: Maybe a little too short.

LOL, I guess you don't like 1-minute levels too much huh?  ;P

Actually I love them, I just couldn't think of anything bad about the level!

Hubbart4 - Level 3: Oh no! mor(s)e lemmings
   
80 Lems  
97% to save  
RR: 30
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climb, 1 float, 1 bomb, 2 block, 13 build, 1 bash, 2 dig

Good: Interesting design, funny title.

Bad: Much of the level is left un-utilized (or at least, there is no motivation to use the lower parts of the level). Boring solution.

In case anyone's wondering, the Morse code bit simply says "LEMMINGS" :P

Oh. That's clever.  :D I hadn't even thought to look it up.

I didn't need to. :D

well everyone knows of SOS ...---... so S is ... and the 3rd and 4th letters are the same...so its easy to figure out...and besides...what else would it be...

SOS is easy to figure out.It stands for "save our souls" if i'm right.

SOS originally didn't have an intended meaning. It's easy to transmit and recognize, so it was a good distress signal. You could take it to mean "Save our ship" or a bunch of other things.

Check here: http://www.answers.com/sos&r=67


Who's going to review "Remains of the roman empire"?

yep, they just chose the letters SOS because it was easier...

anyway enough about SOS

I guess I'll do the next one I haven't done a level in a while...and I haven't done one from this pack at all

Who is reviewing the 4th level of this pack?

Me! I have uni work...but you know Lemmings > Uni

anyway, I have no idea whether I used a backroute in this level or not. My solution was:

Digging at the top of the pillar, floating down then building, letting another lemming go to the bottom of the pillar and start building, then turning the digger to a blocker. When one of the bottom lemmings reaches the middle of the arch they bash through, the two lemmings then take turns in building to the exit. Then get one of the trapped lemmings to dig down and release the blocker. then mine (will go backwards and die) then all the lemmings should be free. Although Raising the RR earlier and letting more lemmings accumulate should allow for the digger to dig to the bottom then to mine at the very bottom and then climb back to the top, and allow you to get 100%...but I haven't tried.

But to me this whole solution seems to be a backroute, as its possible (i think) to get 100%, and the "broken" parts on the left look like they are there for a purpose as well as the slightly raised steel area on the left, and the level can be completed 1 minute early.

anyway...



Hubbart4 - Level 3: "Remains of the Roman Empire"

1 - Climbers
1 - Floaters
0 - Bombers
1 - Blockers
5 - Builders
1 - Bashers
1 - Miner
2 - Digger

Terrain set -  2
Lemmings - 80
Save - 98%
RR - 30
Time - 3 Minutes

Good: Nice use of 2 directions, looks as though it could be possible on both sides (maybe it is, if i have a back route, and there is a way to get to the left exit)

Bad: Nice design, but could have used the column set.

I think we're getting to the point where, despite the original premise of "CustLemm Level List Game", it's becoming ridiculous to find something bad to say when there isn't any.  O_o

At the very least, this example of forced-badness is particularly silly.  Does the column set have the "rainbow" arch?  No.  Does the column set have those irregular "hills" that forms much of the bottom of the level?  No, at least not that I remember.  In short, this level would be unable to look even remotely the same as the way it is, if the column set was used.

Come to think of it, your "Good" actually would fit the forced-"Bad" better, given the thing about possible backroute.  ;)

well actually they could have used some of the limestone pieces to get a similar effect and it would have been great to see an arch built from pieces from the columns set...

I'm sorry if my critiquing was not up to standard...

anyway I agree, it is hard...

but lets see if i can give it another shot...

Good:

*Has a complex solution, which is not overtly obvious at the start.
*There is a definite attention to detail by the use of holes in the pillars, as well as an attempt to vary the texture of the land.
*Good use of layering (such as the exit appears to be buried in rubble as well as pillars appearing in front and behind the land to create a kind of three dimensional feel.)
*Nice use of timing in the level, however the timing is not excessively precise, which makes for a good level. It is usually a bad thing when a level has to be TOO precise, there usually should be some room for error in the level.
*Good concept for a level and good use of a theme.
*The player has to save all but one, which in my opinion is much harder (and makes for a better level than saving 100%) since the player is made to think about how and why a lemming must be killed, as opposed to a 100% level where the player automatically assumes that all lemmings must be saved.
*Good use of terrain and skills, which prompts the user to explore the level as there are enough skills to allow the player to explore all parts of the level, although both sides of the level initially appear to be possible which encourages the player to explore (instead of having one side of the level blatantly incorrect). Although the left side doesn't actually have a purpose it does make an interesting puzzle, where the player has to decide the possibility of each side being correct.

Bad:

*The gap on the far right seems suspicious and is an easy tip off that you need to build over that gap since it doesn't remain constant with the other gaps (being filled with sludge), a possible solution is removing all sludge, as it doesn't really fit well with the theme of the level. The parts that contain sludge above land could maybe be made into holes.
*Could have used the column set, this statement still stands, as it would have fitted the concept of a Roman styled level far better.
*Having a climber is not necessary; however, it is possible to achieve 100% with just slightly more effort (and the climber). This should be avoided as it is pointless make it possible to complete the level with 100% when it is only required to have 98%, an alternative to this would be to remove the climber. Having it possible to only complete with 98% would also remove possible back routes where a lemming can die somewhere else in the level.
*An extra minute is given to complete the level, the time limit should be changed to 2 minutes, and this will make the level appear more concise as well as adding the "thrill" of timing.

there.

Happy?

a 477 word "analysis on this level detailing both good and bad points.

<laugh> you didn't have to really rewrite the whole thing.  I was just picking your example (because it's there) to make a general point about the CustLemm Level List Game.  ;P


Well yes, if Hubbart has as much time on his hands as you do in rewriting the review, I'm sure he'd be happy to painstakingly take a whole bunch of limestone pieces which consists only of straight edges, put them together to form a crude arch, and then use yet even more black pieces to round it out so it looks curved instead.  O_o

(Or do you have a better way to do it?  Any technique to quickly create reasonable-looking curved pieces out of straight pieces would be really cool.  Seriously.)


Actually, since I haven't really taken much history, is Roman architecture really so prominent with the use of columns?  I thought the Greeks also uses columns quite a bit.

And I have to point out that in the original Lemmings, the columns set was used for such decidedly non-Roman levels like "Curse of the Pharoahs".  :-/  Anyhow......

I completely disagree with one point; it's always good to make it possible to achieve more than the minimum, if this can be done without spoiling the level. (Just look at how much fun guest has been having saving the most possible on the original levels!)

The level design isn't that bad.

Where do you put the images to appear here? I don't have any online space to stock my future images for this game.

Who's reviewing the rest of this level pack?

Hubbart4, level 5 - The Billboard

 Save: 80/80
 Time: 2 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Builders: 7
   Bashers: 1
   Diggers: 3

 Good: Can be tricky trying to contain the crowd while letting one lemming build to the exit.

 Bad: Most of the terrain is wasted.

IMHO the Hubbart levels have beautiful designs, even if they are somewhat simple to solve...
I really wish I could design like that...

Me too!  So far I'm only able to attempt designing a level around certain tricks I have in mind.  That generally doesn't lend itself to such artistic levels as Hubbart's.  I'm pretty impressed with these levels.

I guess it's the same deal with the "special graphics" levels people occasionally design in Cheapo.  Lots of people tend to whine that it's hard to make a special graphics level that's also a good puzzle.  With that in mind, Hubbart here clearly decides to balance the trade-offs favoring the artistic side.

Yeah I agree that's the first thing I noticed when I saw the Hubbart levels...they are really really designed well. A lot are better than the original lemmings levels...

I really loved to see that thundercloud level :P
That's a very good use of the crystal set:the water,the traps and the color :P

And it seems I can't figure out that Billboard level...I can get the lemmings stuck inside the L and E but then?I'dd need a climber :)

The thundercloud level is ace.

Heh, I'm like the "anti-Hubbart" then: I strive to add a high puzzle element in my levels, choosing to sacrifice the interesting, beautiful designs that Hubbart's levels contain.

Then again, I am a logical thinker, and a terrible artist.  ;P

Insane Steve none of your levels are terrible at all. I think they are pretty good. It is mostly my levels that are terrible but if I have problems with a level my friend GM would help me sort it out.

Then again I just love your levels I can't wait until you resume work on Pack 10.

I don't think your level are ugly or anything.  They might not be as spectacular as Hubbart's in the visuals, but they certainly don't look like a highly contrived pile of terrain thrown together just to get a puzzle/trick to work either.  I'd say your levels are pretty normal in terms of visuals.

I think your levels are variable; some of them I might call ugly, but then there are others (the one with one of each skill and two exits, I can't remember the name) that are very attractive to look at; and of course many that fall in between.

As for me, when I started making Cheapo levels I didn't have much idea about how to make them attractive, but now that I've got my new styles, I'm taking the opportunity to remake many of my old levels, and I'm taking much greater care over the visuals of my new ones. Obviously I can't judge how successful this will be, but I note that guest has already commented on the visual appeal of "Zorn's Lemming", the one new level I've shown him. :D

well my levels must be great (imitation in the greatest form of flattery)...

uh actually most of my levels, after playing over them again recently, I've realised most of them are awful...I'll probably release a "best of" pack with all the slightly less crap levels.

Tumble Weed you have a lot of great levels.

I love the level No Use for a Terrain and I love A Rip-Off of a level.
Hide and Seek is a pretty challenging level. I also love We all Fall Up and Someone spiked the Lemmings.

Well, I like Insane Steve's levels; for me they're the best of all.
I don't really care about design, I like the straight terrain and love the neat puzzles and the trickiness in the levels.
Since they are usually small they are quite nice to play, having a first look at them most of them look interesting at once, and usually they are also interesting to play.
Of course there are also some not so good levels, but those appear not so often at all.

Since I don't care about design so much, Hubbart's levels should be not really special to me, but some of the are quite impressing though.

(Oops...seems that it's getting a little off topic...)

You realize that level 4 was skipped?  Either that or the level number for the last one was just wrong.

"Remains of the roman empire" is Level 4, TW just put level 3 by mistake.

Thanks for that information Shvegait. Anyway are you reviewing the next level of Hubbart4.dat ?

I'll review it in a little bit, it's my favorite from the pack :)

My favourite level from the pack is The Beacon.

The Beacon is,if I recall,only mining down twice and you're finished...

Who's reviewing the next level?

Yes, "The beacon" is a very simple level...

OK, moving on:



Hubbart4 - Level 6: The pulley
   
80 Lems  
98% to save  
RR: 10
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climb, 1 bomb, 1 build, 1 bash

Good: Uses a very cool little trick. Nice design, as usual.

Bad: Oh, so sad. I just found that it has a really obvious backroute. At least, I think/hope it's a backroute... Hmm, actually, now I wonder how other people solved this (and the sequel)...

I'm feeling ignored... :'(

Oops, sorry that happens I guess.

Well, if you right-click on any pictures in Internet Explorer and then go to menu item "properties", you can find amongst other info the URL to the image.

The screenshots Shvegait posted had URLs that look like this:

http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/6.png

Alternatively, I think if you click "quote" as if to reply to a post, you can find the "img" tag corresponding to the screenshot and get its URL that way too.

You'll have to ask Shvegait about the jx3.net thing.

Oh, sorry, DragonsLover, I didn't even see that post  X_X

I have a bunch of free server space on a friend's friend's server. I don't know the server owner, but I have connections  ;)

A few months ago I went through a bunch of packs and took screenshots of a ton of levels and uploaded them. You can see all of the screenshots at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/. If we decide to review a pack that doesn't have screenshots, I can go through and take the screenshots in just a few minutes, so you never have to worry about that.

Where do all of you get the levels?

Most of them can be found here:

http://www.garjen.co.uk/Lemmings.php#Packs

I downloaded all the levels from there. I love them all.

Who's reviewing Level 7?

That's ok and that's perfect too. I don't have enough time to take screenshots from all my levels, I'm kinda busy these days, studying at UbiSoft.

I managed to play some custom packs in the original lemmings by renaming them to LEVEL00x.dat (Where x is a number from 0-9 depending on which difficulty you want the pack to appear in.) This way I can play custom levels with the DOS music playing in the background. Anyhow, what I'm getting at, is the fact that I am able to review Level 7...

Hubbart4 - Level 7: Another Beacon


Number of Lemmings 80
100% To Be saved
Release rate 95
Time 1 Minute

Skills: 1 Floater
         1 Blocker
         5 Builders
         2 Miners
         1 Digger

Good: The block behind the exit is very sneaky. You need 100% too.

Bad: Not much of a puzzle, unneccesary builders, and not much different from the first level.

Both levels are brilliant.

Be careful. The max safe fall distance is 3 pixels less in original Lemmings than in CustLemm, and most levels are designed for CustLemm. It doesn't matter in this case, but it could in some others.

You can't review a level without the DOS music playing in the background? :P

If that really is the issue, why can't you just play the Lemmings music in the background with another program?

Of course not, The music makes a game  B)

I could play CustLemm, but no music makes Isu a sad boy ;P

I thought I already mentioned that I didn't like custlemm for that exact reason in another topic

I don't like using any music players (I usually use WMP) because when Custlemm is running, Windows Media player goes inactive. For example - I'm in the middle of a long level, the music cuts (having reached the end), and I need to activate the window (Windows Media Player) to get the music to repeat, too much hassle when I can just rename to LEVEL002.DAT instead of levelpak.dat

I used burn a CD and play it on my walkman, but I still need to worry about changing the track (it's on repeat 1, so I gotta change it when I play a different level)

I want music in Custlemm.

Who's gonna review Level 8?

It would be possible (I'm not saying it would be easy...) to do some hacking and find the part of the original lemmings game that plays music and implant it into custlemm.

That's strange. I usually don't want to hear the Lemmings music when I play, and I just have my music collection on in the background in WMP. Even when playing Cheapo, I usually don't bother with the music.


 Hubbart 4, level 8 - Not as Easy as it Looks

 Save: 80/80
 Time: 2 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Builders: 2
   Bashers: 5

 Good: A nice and short level with some interesting terrain.

 Bad: Far too easy for this late in the pack.

[addition to the prevoius post: I will begin my attempt after lunch.]

I meant addition to the previous previous post.

As there is no music in Custlemm I would put some music on from my CD player or I would put music on from Windows Media Player.

You are right Conway.Level 8 of Hubbart4.dat is far too easy.

Hey, stop impersonating me!!!!!!!   You b%#@$#!  ;P

Hehe, sorry, I guess I will register soon but definitely not right now.

From now on, the regular guest at guestlevels@yahoo.com will now take on names such as "the guest" and the like.

Actually, the discerning reader should be able to tell who's who, because my responses are generally far wordier than the JM-like responses of this "fake guest" here

You know there is more than 1 guest online and they probably don't realise you are the real guest.

Also the person or people using the name guest leave fake e-mail addresses.

You don't get it.  I obvious know the risk, as you've stated above, of having multiple guests around.

The problem is, the "fake guest" I'm pointing to is too similar to me for my comfort.  His style of fake e-mail addresses for example is too similar to mine and can easily fool others.  Worse, and this is why I actually fumed about it, he talked about hacking CustLemm.  Since I've hacked Lemmings before for other people, this just looks way too much like me saying I'm going to look into hacking custlemm for music.  Which I'm not doing at the moment.

Basically, "fake guest" is stepping too close to my turf for my comfort.  I'm sure it's probably not deliberate, but I do need to make a clear point who's who.

I wasn't trying to impersonate you, we are just similar. So, to distinguish between us I will call myself "fake guest" from now on. As you said my posts tend to be shorter, this is because I am a slow typist.

Im a guest and I call myself MC Marshy on these forums from now on. Anyway let's get back onto topic of Custlemm levels. Hubbart4.dat is a pretty good levelpak. I wonder who will review the 9th level.

Hmm. I feel stupid for not solving level 8 as easily as everyone seems to have. It actually took me a good number of attempts (not too many) and then I ran out of time a couple times... Maybe there's a simpler way to beat it? I wonder what your solutions are (esp. Conway).




Hubbart4 - Level 9: The pulley (2)
   
80 Lems  
98% to save  
RR: 90
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 climb, 1 bomb, 2 block, 2 build, 1 bash

Good: Again, uses a cool trick.

Bad: The solution seems too similar to that of the first level... Of course, I don't know what's intended... I had 2 tools and a minute left after beating this...

I have to wonder what the real solution is. The small terrain change doesn't affect my solution from the first "The pulley", but that could just mean that what I thought was a backroute for the first level was actually intended.

The first level certainly uses the same solution. The tricks of this level are cool. Both levels are ace. The last level of the pack has a pretty cool level name.

Hi, I'm so sorry for being such a jerk over this.  :sorry:

I know it's not intentional [and I wouldn't have even been suspicious if Tumbleweed (or is it Isu) hadn't been prodding me lately about registering].  My main purpose really was to make sure no one was confused who was who.

You really don't need to call yourself fake guest if you don't want.  As long as no one takes on "The Guest" we'd be fine.  And actually, I probably would slip back to just "guest" on posts where it doesn't really matter who's who.

It's okay.

You want music???

Read this topic

If you put a CD into your drive, the tracks mentioned inside the topic will play during the levels.

Thanks Dragonslover.

So it looks like we have nearly finished reviewing Hubbart4.dat
Just one more level.

It's such a brilliant level pack. The author has made some very nice levels especially Storm and Thunder.

I don't understand why regulars post as a guest instead of registering anyway!

 Strange, I never did figure out The Pully 2. Here's my solution to Not as Easy as it Looks (since Shvegait wanted to know).

Lem 1 build against a slope to turn back, bash through the two walls to the left, buld over the gap and bash through to the exit. Make the lemming behind him bash through the twig in the air to delay the rest. At some point 99 the release rate.

Oh. I can't believe I didn't think of that. I managed to trap them in a more awkward manner which made it more difficult than your way. (I wonder if it was intended though... I'm thinking it might be, based on the title.)

I didn't complete all the levels on that pack. They are very well designed. The 9th level was hard. I loved the levels on Hubbart3.dat especially The Equation.

So who is ready to review Level 10?

I still haven't passed it! :-[

Neither Have I. I'll try and get passed it now.

Who managed to get passed Level 10?

I can't get passed level 9 either so I can't play level 10 either :(

Now I  finally made level 9 and all I can say about level 10 is that it looks completely impossible to me...I tried several tactics but everything failed :(

Level 10 is far from impossible, in fact, I think I'll review it now...

Hubbart4 - Level 10: A new roof for the entrance



Number of Lemmings 80
100% To Be saved
Release rate 60
Time 1 Minute

Skills: 1 Builder
    1 Basher
    4 Diggers

Good: Uses a very sneaky trick (Unless my solution is a backroute, I had a digger spare).

Bad: Not as "Decorative" as the previous levels.

Isu, I think the spare digger is just a crutch to make it possibly easier but is not really needed.

The reason I suggested Hubbart4 was because these last couple of levels can actually be difficult and use really cool tricks. Their designs aren't the only good things about their levels :)

So,how did you manage it?

I would love my first level pack to be reviewed now :)
The first level in my pack was also the first I ever made so it isn't decorative at all :)

Leviathan, you have a new PM :)

The trick for level 10 requires some luck and is difficult to pull off. I've only managed to do it once. I had a digger spare so I probably did it the same way as Isu.

This is regular guest speaking to differentiate from the more recent guest.

Just want to say I haven't got the chance to download the level yet.  It didn't look too hard to me, but I'm sure the devil's in the execution.

The solution requires some good timing at the beginning and some luck at the end. The execution is similar in difficulty to "There's madness in the method". But for some reason level 4 was harder for me. :P

If I recall I had another kind of solution to Madness in the method...but mostly I ended up with my miner splatting.

Huh? Once you know the trick to "A new roof for the entrance", it should take you a couple of tries at most... Don't even try to compare it to "There's madness in the method", although the trick is quite cool and I'll admit I use a variation of it in one of my levels (new pack that's not done yet). But really it's not that hard to execute...

So which pack are we reviewing next?

I would love mine to be reviewed :)

I believe someone could make the screenshots and upload them easily.

My levelpack is here:http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php
The pack is called "levipack1"

EDIT: in order to let 2 of my levels run well,you need to copy the extended graphic sets from the lemmings folder into your custlem folder (vgaspec0 trough vgaspec3)

Hmmm...my solution is probably a lot harder than it needs to be. Here's how I didi it:Let the first lemming walk a ways then make him dig. Make the second one dig as close to the other hole as possible without falling in. When the third lemming comes out set the release rate to 99. The third lemming should turn back, make him dig over the exit. When the diggers are low enough so that the lemmings won't die, make one of the lemmings bash under the second digger. Then make the first digger build.

Oh, interesting. Here is my solution (the trick that I had been referring to should become obvious):

Let the first lemming walk a ways then make him dig. Make the second lemming fall in the hole and dig also, make the third lemming hit the right side of the diggers' tunnel and face the exit, then dig in between the first two lemmings, freeing at least one (so there are only 2 diggers digging). Raise the release rate to 99. After waiting a bit to get a safe fall height, make the digger facing the exit a basher. Stop the other digger by making him a builder (this can be done at any time.)


Leviathan, I've just downloaded your pack and will take screenshots right away. One note, they are being filed under "levpak1" instead of "levipak1", because that is the name of the .dat file. If this is unacceptable let me know. "levpak1" might sound generic, as in "level pack 1", whereas "levipak1" couldn't be construed that way... but it's your choice, just let me know!

Aaargh! I knew I did it the hard way!

I didn't know diggers could free each other. That suggests that the "we all fall down" levels could be done easily with 2 diggers (maybe). The first one digs and the second one digs near the right edge of the hole, freeing the first digger (might not work).

That won't work.

The reason you can free diggers with diggers is because you can eliminate the ground completely under the digger (This is especially easy when you have two diggers and a third that frees one of the others. You need to be pixel-perfect for just one digger to free another). In your "We all fall down" example, however, there must be at least one pixel left, so the digger will not be freed. (This is a different story in Cheapo, which requires at least 2 pixels for a digger to continue digging).


Edit: I've uploaded the screenshots of Leviathan's levels.

Some of his levels are quite challenging (Some are annoying  X_X)!  Conway knows how much I hate 80 floater levels (in which you need to use all 80, and have a very limited time to do so...), so i really shouldn't review the first level... I'll leave that to someone else :)

I never knew that about the diggers too,that's why it seemed imposible for me :)

I know about the first level...it's the first one I ever made :)
Note that the rest of the levels isn't in the same order than the order I made them,the second one I made was level 10 :)

If you can,you may call it Levipak1 as lev or levi stands for "leviathan" :)

I understand that... I was merely stating that the file itself is called "Levpak.dat", and the naming convention I've been using refers to the .dat file.

No, you didn't; I used the same solution as Shvegait.

When is the next levelpak being reviewed? May I ask kindly

As soon as someone decides to review the first level of Leviathan's pack... Like I said before, I won't review it because I won't say anything good about it, but someone else might :)

Such encouraging words for new levelmakers......  ;P

I see that brutal honesty is your personal philosophy.  :-/

Leviathan is a new level maker and somebody must be review his levels. I think they are brilliant.

It was just really reminiscent of Conway's "Lemmings of the niagra falls"... Why make someone click 80 floaters?? In Lemmings even... I don't care about Cheapo, where you can make non-floaters who are in the same space as floaters, floaters, and where you can give a tool while paused, but this is just ridiculous and un-fun...

I have some good things to say about some of the other levels. That's why I said I don't want to review *this* first one :P



I never really thought about it, but I guess it is. :P
Fluffing up your words solves nothing, and it can create a confusing picture. We're reviewing the levels here, not patting each other on the back, right? Besides, there are a lot of people out there who need a reality check (I'm not talking about any forum-goers!)

But I always try to be constructive if possible... I didn't say his levels are horrible (They are actually very challenging), just that clicking 80 floaters is not fun  X_X

Oh ok.  You see, I misread your comments to mean you don't have anything good to say about the entire set!  ;P

As an aside......


I won't dispute the "ridiculous and un-fun" part (which really applies just as well to Cheapo, I'd say), but since you can always assign floaters as soon as they come out of the entrance, and since even at the highest RR the lemmings don't overlap when falling, I don't think it'd be any harder in CustLemm vs. in Cheapo.

Also, technically it's not true that you can't assign floater to a non-floater overlapping another floater in CustLemm.  In fact, it has nothing to do with floaters.  In Lemmings, the cursor selection always favor the lemming that came out the latest, if everyone under the cursor is walking.

What was the order that you (leviathan) made the levels?

Oh, I didn't mean to say that it's *difficult* in CustLemm relative to Cheapo. I only meant that it is less annoying in Cheapo. As much as I try to make every lemming a floater at 99 RR, I almost always manage to miss one  X_X



I just re-read what I wrote, and it kind of did sound like that, although the "it" should refer to "first level", not "Leviathan's pack". So to prevent any confusion, I just meant I didn't want to review the first level! (Well, and maybe a couple others  ;), but the maximum any one person can review is 5 anyway, with normal rules)

Odd; when I'm playing the two floater-crazy levels (12 Tricky and its repeat 21 Mayhem) I always begin by increasing the RR to 99 to make things easier for myself :P

Really? I just use a couple of builders to make the drop non-fatal so that I only need a few of the floaters...

Edit: Err, for Tricky 12 anyway, and someone's LemEdit version of the level. For Mayhem 21 I'm pretty sure I did raise the release rate (but not to 99).

Ok... Since no one has reviewed this level yet and since I basically already reviewed it, I decided to just go ahead and move this along.



Levpak1 - Level 1: Fall before the building
   
80 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 80 floaters, 3 builders

Good: You can get away with setting the RR to 90 and still pass the level.

Bad: No puzzle. Having to make 80 lemmings floaters (for no interesting purpose) is annoying. Looks really empty and bland.

Who is going to review level 2?

Why don't you? Everyone can participate.

I haven't managed to pass it yet though (keep running out of time of course). I hope I'm missing something obvious  X_X (Edit: Got it. Just need to be perfect...)

1) Fall before the building (actually my first test)
2) Escape the wolfs claw
3) Judgment day
4) Very menacing!!
5) Bad arrow
6) Need any help from above?
7) Hurry up! Go down!!
8 ) We may not fall down
9) Greenpiece
10) Dolly dimple,not that simple

And yes,if I would design level 1 now I would have  added some spider's webs or something :)

Ok, it was actually a pretty good level. It took me a few tries to pass it too.

Levpak1 - Level 2: Need any help from above ?
   
80 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: one of each

Good: Simple looking level, but it requires you to find as many ways as possible to speed things up.

Bad: The general idea of the solution is obvious.

The level looks good and levels where you have to find many ways as possible to complete them are pretty ace.

I'm wondering what kind solution you came up with for level 2...right before I released it I changed the level because there was a backroute that spoiled the entire idea,so I'm wondering if there's still a backroute :)

With the trick I had in mind,I have about 15 seconds left when the last lem enters the exit.

Level 2 isn't really a bad level but it is challenging. Level 3 is easy. I really say it is a brilliant pack. Who could review Level 3?

Leviathan, yes, there is still a backroute. You can pass it with 1 second left without using any crazy tricks. I had thought even that was impossible for a while, but if you use every possible trick to get them all there as fast as possible, you can do it with 1 second to spare. If you have 15 seconds left normally, it should be really easy for you to fix this.

JM: You can review Level 3, can you not? You said it was easy, so you must have passed it. Go ahead and review it.

Yeah I could review level 3. Here it goes.



Levpak1 - Level 3: Bad Arrow!

80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 of each

Good: Nice level design,good number of skills to complete the level

Bad: Level not hard enough

The correct syntax for an image is:
address of the image[/imgg]
The second one only has one 'g', I just changed it so it wouldn't show up blank.

Sorry, I didn't see that you changed it.

I was having trouble uploading the image. It took me 17 minutes to figure out how to upload it properly. It's ok. Thanks for trying to help me anyway.

Then it's a challenge on my own level,on how to pass my level without using my intended trick :)
I'll make the walkway 2 bricks longer in my next pack :)

It can be done with 20 seconds left using the miner glitch found by the guest. In this case, you can make the first lemming on the top mine, and then turn him into a blocker during his second swing. This will cause him to fall down even though the ground above is not broken. I am pretty sure this is a backroute.

That is the intended solution to my level and it should be the only way to pass the level :)
That's why I choose the title "need any help from above" :)

Need any help from above was a good Title for the level. The levels in your pack are very challenging.

I still haven't figured out on how you finish the level without the miner glitch :)

Okay. Who wants to review Level 4?

I hope someone who loves using bombers will review my Greenpiece level :)
The general idea was to make sure the top parts of the threes were used instead of the lower parts of the level,but it was still way too simple so I came up with the idea of bombing the forrest :)

Level 4 is my Menacing remake...I think you can review it :)

I managed Greenpiece using ALL 90 builders (saved about 30%). Of course it can be done with less, but it was my first try and it took a little to figure out exactly how high the steel ground went up and such. I'll review it when we get there.

It's the only LemEdit level I've played that actually needs more than 10 minutes (I used about 15 or so).

I haven't passed the Menacing remake though, and I don't really feel like it :P so somebody else ought to review it.

You have enough patience for Greenpiece but not the Menacing remake?



Set the release rate to 99. Make the last lemming on the top mine (second to last might work, but I haven't tried). Right before he hits the ground, make him a floater. Make him build as close as possible to the barrel (but also far enough away so the other lemmings can get over). When he is right next to the thing in the middle, make him bash.

I usually give each level at least one try. If I didn't pass Greenpiece on my first, I wouldn't have played through it again, I'm sure!

How about I review the Menacing Remake but somebody else can review the next level.


Levpak1 - Level 4: VERY MENACING!!!!!!

80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 50
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,19 builders,2 bashers and 1 digger

Good: Nicely designed,Traps put in good places,good use of the crystal graphics

Bad: Not enough bashers

Surely the level is designed to be challenging. You're supposed to think about how to do the level without many bashers...




Levpak1 - Level 5: Dolly Dimple,not that simple
   
80 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 3 builders, 2 diggers

Good: Forces a specific solution of Dolly Dimple using the minimum amount of tools necessary.

Bad: Well, I don't know. It's not *that* difficult. :P

I don't know whats bad about Level 5 either. But its got a good number of skills to be used to complete the level.

A rather ironic comment, considering that there's hardly a trace of any crystal graphics in the level.  ;) Unless I miss a hidden trap or something.  (And the entrance and exit don't really count, since it could've just as well came from the "Columns" set.)

I played on the level and when I bashed one of the obstacles I spotted a demoleculariser and it started killing my lemmings. The Menacing level would look good if it used the objects from the hell set. The objects in the Menacing remake obviously came from the crystal set.

If you open the Menacing remake in lemedit, you will see that the entrance, exit, and trap are all from the crystal graphics set.

I noticed that.

I know about that, I was just striked by how little evidence of the crystal set can actually be seen in the screenshot.  So it was kinda funny that JM mentioned it, that's all.  ;)

Has anyone done level 6? It is possibly a little too annoying for me...I'll give it a shot.

I was forced to use crystal set because the demolecularizer was the best looking trap of all to put there,I guess that's what JM meant by good use of the crystal graphics :)

If I recall correctly,only putting objects works with the extended graphics sets...I remember trying to put a block of steel somewhere and it didn't show up in the level when playing it...

As for there are too less bashers in the menacing remake...the second basher just must be placed perfect in order to bash trough the snake...and for the bones beyond,you don't need a basher :)

I'm already halfway trough making a second pack...and I'll make a "need any help from above part 2" to remove the backroute mentioned above :)

One of my finished levels is one I'm very proud of...it's called "Ventral Maintenance" and it uses the crystal set...which is one of my favourite sets :)

The Crystal set is one of my favourite sets too. I'll see if I can pass level 6 on your first pack.

I will review Level 6.



Levipak1 - Level 6: We may not fall down

Number of Lemmings: 80
100% to be saved
RR: 70
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 40 Builders,1 Basher

Good: Challenging and Tricky,Good Time Limit to complete level

Bad: The RR could be set higher

Who's doing the next level then?

OK, I'll do this one, but someone else will have to cover "Greenpiece".



Levpak1 - Level 7: Judgment day
   
80 Lems  
77% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 30 builders

Good: Levels where you try to save as many lemmings from traps are always fun to play. Perfect save target... I had saved 76% several times before passing this.

Bad: Well, again, I don't know. Terrain is very simple, I guess... But I don't think you always need the frivolous stuff. Oh, I know, I would've centered the level to the right a little more :P

I wonder, is there some system for passing Judgment Day? I must have tried it over 30 times and the most I can save is about two less than I need. It's a very frustrating level!

I don't play CustLemm, but I'd guess the best procedure is to make a bridge wall under the trapdoor with lems 2, 3 and 4, and use most of the remaining builds as delays while the first possible lemming each time builds past the traps.

Finally passed it! And Greenpiece . . .



 Levpak1.dat, level 8 - Greenpiece

 Save: 10/80
 Time: 30 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Bombers: 80
   Blockers: 80
   Builders: 90

 Good:  Very long and with plenty of skills.

 Bad: Repetetive and dull after a while.

Long levels are good especially if they have plenty of skills. Short levels are boring. Greenpiece is a brilliant level and the graphics suit it.

Only if they are very easy. 1-3 minute levels can be very challenging when made well. A good short level is my favorite kind. 4-6 minute levels can be made fun and unrepetative. 7+ minute levels usually annoy me because they usually inolve a lot of repetition. Long levels can be good if they are not repetative, but that doesn't seem to happen much.

That's right. If they are challenging then they usually aren't boring. If a level is more than 7 minutes long it gets annoying. That is usually because they involve a lot of work. Easy levels are usually boring but Hard levels are fun. Levels like Just Dig,Easy When you Know How etc on Fun on the original Lemmings are boring but the levels further on get challenging and they are more fun that just plain boring.

Two more levels to go on this set, correct?

Yep, two more levels. Just one after this :)



Levpak1 - Level 9: Hurry up! Go down!!
   
80 Lems  
97% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 80 bombers, 2 blockers, 8 builders, 1 basher

Good: The steep staircase is pretty cool. There is sort of an optical illusion that, if you are fooled by, the level seems impossible.

Bad: Seemed a bit too easy for this late in the set. The blockers and generous time limit make the title seem odd.

That's correct. One level left.

Yeah,for the design of the level I had i mind it wasn't possible to make it a tight fit with the time...

About the steep slope,it's the steepest I could get,one more pixel and the lems would return :)

I'll see if I can make a "part two" without blockers requiring 100% :)

How many levels have you got left to make in Pack 2?

I have about 3 or 4 levels left to do...depending on how many remakes I'm going to make.

The coolest new level I made is a remake on "Cascade" called "water cascade"...but I need to tweak things to make it harder :)

I mostly like levels where you have to save one group of lemmings with the help of another group...but in packs I like a mixture of different kinds of levels.

The thing I find myself most inventive in,is building a level out of the name of a title...I'm working on a level called "highway to hell",so it has to involve lemmings going down and using the hell set :)

I've made a level that looks oh so simple but in fact involves a few tricks to complete...

My new levels so far:

-Ventral maintenance (Complete)
-Splatter bonus (Complete)
-Yeah right...you wish! (Complete)
-Water cascade (still some tweaks needed)
-Want the elevator? (still some tweaks needed)
-highway to hell (unfinished)
-Need more help from above (finished I guess,eleminating the backroute from my first pack)

Going up?  Considering the destination your highway leads to, are you sure you haven't gotten things, um, the other way around?  ;P

That's exactly what I meant...I guess seeing lemmings go up and down makes me confused :P

The level names sound good. Level 9 isn't really a bad level in your first pack. Well Level 10 is the only level that needs reviewing and the pack is done.

Has someone found the solution to level 10 yet?
I mean without using LemEdit to "investigate" the level :)

I haven't managed to pass Level 10 yet.

I tried it a few times and then it became rather obvious. I checked in lemedit to make sure...I was right. I still haven't done it yet though.

I'll review the level then.



Levpak1 - Level 10: Escape from the Wolf's Claw
   
80 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 77
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 20 Builders,2 Bashers,1 Digger

Good: Well designed level,Good level name and hard

Bad: I can't think of something bad about this level

It does use a rather cheap trick. Other than that it's a good level.

If we want to review the next level pack we could review TWPAK11.dat,Isteve07.dat or Isteve09.dat couldn't we? Or review oldbutgo.dat or 20041.dat?

I'm not familiar with oldbutgo.dat and 20041.dat. Whose packs are they, and where can they be downloaded?

I have both those packs. I think they were made by Lemeri. If you want them drop me an e-mail.

I'dd like to have those packs and review one of those :)

I really love my discovery of this forum and LemEdit2 :)It makes a child's dream (10 years ago) of making own levels come true :P

Shvegait I'll send you both the packs and you can give them to Leviathan :D


http://www.geocities.com/jmjm0052005/Custlemmpacks.zip

Basically they are in that link up there. That contains all the levelpaks I either downloaded or made.

I suggest we review 20041.dat :)
I played the other pack mentioned and it's,well,way too easy and too long levels (no offense for the author,the levels look cool) :P

Yeah I think we could review 20041.dat Where are the images for the levels?

Geez, I just downloaded the pack. Give me a little bit of time to take the screenshots :)

That's ok. I downloaded the pack ages ago. I think we could review 20041.dat . The creator of the pack made some nice remakes of the levels from the Original Lemmings.

Ok.. I've taken screenshots of all the levels except level 8, which crashes DOSBox for me (rather than a freeze, which usually happens for me with broken levels). Does this level work for anyone else? If not, then we'd of course have to skip the review of that level.

One thing about this pack is that every level is a spin on an original Lemmings level, so if we choose to review it, then the comments should probably be based on how well the author used the existing terrain to make a new level, how interesting the modifications are, etc. since we can't comment on the original terrain design.

Level 8 i think worked ok for me.

I can't find the screenshots in the directory where they should be,but I'll mod my post with the screenshot as soon as they're available :)

20041.dat - Level1 - Just dig,bash,and bridge



Lems:2
To save:2
Time:2 mins
RR:1
Skills:12 builders,1digger and 2 bashers

Good: The steel areas makes it tricky to place the bashers right,also the builder needs a quick reaction time.

Bad: Way too easy,I could do the level in just one minute time with only 1 builder (and the 2 bashers and the digger)...it could have been made a bit trickier with more lemmings and a high release rate.

Oops. I was stupid and didn't actually upload the screenshots  :-[ They're there now though.

I could do the level in just a minute aswell. How do you get the screenshots because I tried to get it for Level 8?

In DOSBox, hitting Ctrl+F5 stores a .PNG screenshot in a directory called "capture" (inside your DOSBox directory) with the name of the application, followed by a number (i.e. custlemm_001.png).

If you're not running DOSBox, you may be able to get a screenshot with "Print Screen", pasting it into Paint or related program.

Since you can only get one screen at a time, you'll have to take several screenshots (perhaps around 7 for that level) and link them together where they overlap. I usually determine where to overlap screenshots based on where there are non-uniform (non-black) pixels at the very top or bottom of the screen, because it makes linking the screenshots accurately very easy.

One thing you will want to do is edit in Attributes the height of each screenshot, so that it is 160 pixels, instead of 200. This is how you can discard the tool, etc. information at the bottom of the screen. Widen the size of the picture as you link them, up to a maximum of 1584x160 (I believe Level 8 requires this maximum size). I usually start linking from right to left, because it works more naturally in Paint, but find whatever way you want to link them.

And of course, pause the game, so that your screenshots look correct together. I pause the game before the windows are opened and try to get it so that in levels with traps, they can be clearly seen, like the fire-shooting trap in the Hell graphics set and the ice-shooting one in the Snow set. The same goes for thin one-way walls, where the arrows sometimes do not appear at all.



Here's the next level:



20041 - Level 2: Have a rotten day
   
80 Lems  
75% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climb, 1 float, 3 block, 15 build, 3 bash, 1 dig

Good: Interesting reversal of entrance and exit, with of course some other modifications. It's possible (but perhaps too easy) to save 100%.

Bad: Seems easier than "Have a nice day!" The one-way walls really should be set to display on ground only. The one-way area on the steel block seems to serve no purpose.

It is easier than Have a nice day. Would be better if it was harder.

That's unlikely to work.  The PrintScreen only works with Windows app, not DOS apps.  You can do it with DOSBox because of course DOSBox itself is a Windows app (which just happens to emulate DOS apps).

As an aside, you can use Alt+PrintScreen to just capture the current active window.  That's how I generally made my screenshots for the Lemmings challenges.

It would be time I reviewed Level 3.



20041 - Steel Failures

Number of Lemmings 80
82% to save
RR: 1
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 27 Floaters,4 Blockers,14 Builders,2 Bashers,1 Digger

Good: Nice level design,Good amount of builders

Bad: 8 minutes? You can complete it less than that,Too many floaters

I couldn't pass that level...always too less builders :(

Who wants to review Level 4 then?

20041 - Level 4: Tightrope Murder
   
5 Lems  
20% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 4 bashers

Good: Uses the air bashing technique...

Bad: Way too simple. You have no choice *but* to air bash!

Interesting title, makes me wonder if Lemeri originally intended to use the "Columns" set (which has the rope trap).

The title of the level is interesting. Lemeri seemed to have made a nice pack. But you have no choice but to airbash on the level. I'll call one of my next levels No Choice but to Air-Bash. I'll take a shot at Level 5.



20041 - Level 5: The roles Reversed

2 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 2 Floaters, 40 Builders, 40 Diggers

Good: You have to dig the bars to get through them which is challenging

Bad: Not a lot of lemmings on level

Considering that every level in the pack is based on an original Lemmings level, it seems much more likely that he just took the level "Tightrope City" (Tricky 24), and added in the columns with the crushers, changing the word "City" to "Murder" (and, of course, he also added a triangle piece so you don't need to build up to the exit platform).





20041 - Level 6: Just three minutes
   
80 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 15 builders, 1 miner

Good: You sort of have to be a little careful about how high you build...

Bad: The title! It took me just over two minutes to complete... and it seems possible to complete with at least 1:01 remaining. Other than that, the level is pretty boring.

The level certainly is boring and it takes less than 3 minutes to complete. The level would be better if it was called Just two minutes and the time limit to complete the level was 2 minutes. The level wasn't hard either I found it easy to complete. The first level and the second weren't hard. When I first played the 4th level of the pack I couldn't complete it but I managed in the end.

Level 8 probably crashes because it has an object with the y coordinates below 0 (above the top of the screen). Custlemm and Lemmings doesn't seem to like that. If you find which object that is in LemEdit and move in down a little, it should work.


20041.dat level 7 - And then there were four (Lems)
 Save: 4/4
 Time: 9 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Climbers: 4
   Floaters: 4
   Builders: 7
   Bashers: 1

 Good: A cool spin-off of one of my favourite original levels.

 Bad: Easier that most in this set, and it's possible to reach all exits except the bottom-left. Also, 9 minutes is far too much time for any of the exits.

I'm fairly certain that it's the window in the center of the level. Let me go check.

Edit: Yep, that's what it was. I've uploaded a screenshot of the level (with the window moved down two pixels). If anyone wants an updated pack, I can put it up, or you could just fix the level yourself (doesn't take long).

Some of the thigns people are listing as "bad" are very strange......

I love levels with only a few lemmings! And I love levels with multiple exits where you can reach any of them! (In both cases provided of course that this doesn't make the level much easier than intended.)

Shvegait I sent you the updated pack didn't I?

You did, but I forgot to make it my new levelpak.dat  :-[

From the screenshot, I can tell the solution is:
- build right lem to ceiling and then over the left block.
- build left lem to the steel and back.
- build middle lems over the block on the left
- Make every lemming a climber so that they climb the steel to the right to exit easily.

This is assuming that two lemmings fall from the middle and yes, 9 minutes is way to long for this solution.

I've not played this level yet, so, it works in theory  ;P.

So level 8 seems to work now? I haven't played on it.

I'll review Level 8 if nobody seems interested to ;P



20041 - Level 8:No rendezvous at the mountain

Lemmings: 80
75% to save
RR: 1
Time: 9 Minutes
Skills: 1 bomber,2 blockers,20 builders,2 bashers,5 diggers

Good: Terrain and Objects nicely placed,Good set of multiple entrances and lemmings get trapped in a jail coming out of one entrance

Bad: Level can be complete in less than 9 minutes and more bombers are needed

This seems to be your hang-up, JM. You say you like levels to be difficult, but when someone makes them difficult you always want there to be more skills.... isn't it more challenging to have to work out how to make use of the ones you have?

It is challenging to make use of the skills you have. I don't always want there to be more skills on levels. I liked the use of skills on Level 5 of this pack.

I'm doing Level 9



20041 - The Cascade: Part II

80 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 10 floaters, 5 bombers, 10 builders, 1 basher,1 miner, 5 diggers

Good: Nice and hard

Bad: Time limit too long and one way block not used in level

I still don't know the 100% solution for the original cascade.

I don't know how to get 100% on the Original Cascade either. I've tried but I only manage to save 12% of the lemmings. I say this levelpak is a good remake of the levels from the Original Lemmings. Only 1 level left to review and the pack is done.

 20041.dat Level 10 - Spilled Pea Soup
 Save: 75/80
 Time: 5 minutes
 RR: 1

 Skills:
   Bombers: 10
   Blockers: 10
   Builders: 30
   Diggers: 21

 Good: A nice take on a classic original level with a nice design.

 Bad: Still has a ridiculous amount of straight building with no element of puzzle (except for the fall-directly-into-exit trick). Also, the exit doesn't seem to work so it is technically impossible.

If we're not already decided on what to  review next could we do one of my packs?

But the one-way block wasn't utilized in the original either.

Which of your packs would you prefer?

I was going to ask about this. I even searched in LemEdit for a hidden exit, but nope. It definitely seems impossible; anyone know otherwise?

Any of them.  I think...three.  Yeah, three's good, but ultimately the choice is up to you.

EDIT:  Uh.....we need some screenshots of both of my new packs... X_X

I forgot which menu it is called, but in LemEdit there's a place where you can set certain display-related options.  So you can turn off the terrain and tell it to ignore the no-overdraw and/or draw-on-terrain-only flags.  Then all objects in the level should show up.

If you can't find an exit object with a z-order of 15 or lower, then the level is impossible to solve.

Yeah. What I meant was I viewed all the objects in the level, and there is no hidden exit. 8 are acid, 1 is the window, 1 is the only exit. I just didn't know if there was some trick/bug that let you get in the exit before dying in the acid. I guess not, but I didn't know.

Impossible levels are for suck  :-(

@Timballisto: OK, I'll set up screenshots in a little bit. Packs will be named timb03 and timb04, if that's OK.

Sure.  Thanks a lot!

Oh I see.  So it's not a z-order problem, it's the overlapping object problem.

When the trigger areas of two objects overlap, the one with the higher z-order takes effect in the overlapping region.  So I guess here, the problem is that the water's trigger area is overuling part of or all of the exit's trigger area.

Interesting.  Let me take a shot at this, the level might actually be solvable (or at least the exit can be made usable) without modification.  Well, a slim maybe anyway.

Ok, it looks like all of the exit's trigger area is covered up by the water's trigger area.  So, in effect, there are no exit trigger areas in the level, hence the level is not solvable.

Hmm, actually, I'm not 100% sure now.

It seems like, from the entrance area, you escape the wrath of water if the row of pixels of ground is at y=143.  The exit's ground row is actually just one lower than that, at y=144.  It seems that without the water, you can still exit with the ground row as high as y=140.

So it would seem that there are some places where the exit's trigger area are not overlapped by the water's.

This is actually confusing me a little now.  I always thought trigger areas are aligned to multiples of 4 in their x, y, width and height.  Now I'm not so sure.

Anyway, I'll try this level later again and see if it's possible to solve it as is.

Interesting. Well, you know that the exit triggers span multiple y values, but it only matters if there's ground for the lemmings to land on. This is not true for water, where the lemmings will die regardless of surrounding terrain. So while the exit trigger's region may not be completely overlapped by the water, there's no ground for the lemmings to land on to make an exit, and they'll always hit the water first.

Timballisto: I've uploaded screenshots for your 3rd and 4th pack. One note: The method I normally use for piecing together screenshots does not work on Level 4 of your 4th pack (the really long line). Whenever there's no context and very little contrast in pixels either horizontally or vertically, it can take a really long time to get an accurate screenshot. On the other "line" levels, I've been lucky that they've been on something like the crystal set, where there's at least some variation in the pixels. The pipes make it a bit more annoying, although it should be possible, but it's late, and I'm tired  X_X

We're not reviewing that particular pack next anyway, so it doesn't really matter, but for the time being I just put up a screenshot of the level preview, which should give a basic idea of the level (although the picture is very very small.)

Are we reviewing Timballisto's levels then?

Level solved!  Here we go:

http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/spilledpeasoup_a.png
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/spilledpeasoup_b.png

This is a 77/80 solution.  It should be possible to get 79/80 if you don't use bombers to free the 2 blockers I used.  I'm less sure about the feasibility of 80/80, mainly because I think you'd run out of builders.

How did you get those bridges like that???????

I think Insane Steve was actually the first one who discovered the technique.  Build 4 bricks, dig down 4 times, build 4 bricks, dig down 4 times, repeat.

i think it might be digging down through the builders steps then building again...possibly

80/80 is definitely possible, just a bit hard to execute. The way I see would use all the builders, maybe.

"Definitely possible" and "maybe" seems oxymoronic.  :P  Have you confirmed it (ie. actually done it) to work or not?

I haven't really done any sketches on it, so I guess as long as you have enough builders you're fine, and there are ways you can avoid using the blockers (I used them because it's the simplest thing to do).  Though there's also the time limit to contend with.  So I really can't tell whether it is possible without trying it out, but I wouldn't be surprised either if someone succeeds.

One thing to keep in mind is that the third lemming lost in my 77/80 is the digger that creates the opening directly above the exit on the long bridge.  The digger has to dig a little to the right of it, which in turn causes him to miss the exit.  The question then becomes how many builders you need to turn him back towards the exit.  Hopefully not too many.  Or maybe you find a way to keep the digger from missing the exit?

Hmm, I guess there's a way.  Start doing that build+dig+repeat routine earlier and you automatically get an opening at the right location with the trailblazer instead of having to send a second lemming to do it.  Ok, I guess 80/80 is possible.

"maybe" was referring to whether or not all the builders would be used. Actually, after trying the level, there would probably be 4 or 5 left. I did start the build+dig+repeat so there would be an opening above the exit, but I messed up on the next one and the lemming fell.

Yet again I'm proved wrong! Good job, Old Guest!

 Shvegait, you can get a screenshot of a line level either by

1. Opening it at low resolution in WinLemm, maximized at a sufficiently high screen resolution, or

2. Inserting temporary intermediate pieces for perspective when piecing together the level from DOSBox screenshots, then removing them in Paint or another imaging program.

I'm still a bit confused about that technique, but I'll try it.

Sometimes I get the feeling that anything is possible in lemmings!

I get this feeling all the time... when ccexplore is around. :P


@Conway: I never even thought of editing the level to take a screenshot of it. Now, with LemEdit2, it won't even be a hassle. Thanks for the idea!

I'm no good at taking screenshots :(

But I know how to complete the last level of 20041.dat It's not a bad level

We're doing timb03 next, right? That pack has lots of good scenery, but that squigly thing in level 6 looks a lot like tapeworms, ugh.

I think it is. You could ask Shvegait or Conway if you don't know what pack is being reviewed next.

Well Timbalisto kindly requested one of his packs for review. I see no better choice. Everyone else seems happy with the idea. So yeah, let's go!

 How's those screenshots coming, Shvegait?

They're already up and done. It's just timb04.dat Level 4 that I need to make better. (We're reviewing timb03.dat, so this doesn't really matter.)

I'm happy with reviewing timb03.dat

Well then as the lemmings say lets go!

Timb03 - Level 1: The Secret of the Hidden Lake
   
4 Lems  
75% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 bomber, 4 builders, 1 digger

Good: Interesting maze design. Involves a neat little trick.

Bad: Annoying pixel precision! (If you don't build in just the right space, the lemming will get stuck in the wall. >:( ) A lot of the maze is unused, and it's just a lot of waiting.

(Note: I'm making the assumption I solved it the intended way. It seems the way things worked out that I did.)

People should already know this, but since Tim doesn't use CustLemm to playtest (or for that matter, play) his levels, CustLem2 should be used instead for these levels.  In most (if not all) cases it probably won't make a difference, but as we are reviewing the set, this is kind of important for an accurate review.

I haven't got Custlemm2 but I love the design of the first level of timb03.dat

It involves a "neat trick"?

What is it?

Well I guess it's not really a "trick"... but the digger/bomber in the top half of the level.

Well, the solution is this, so you can check shvegait:

When the last lemming in the pack of lower lemmings reaches the very edge of the start of his descent on the first stair case, make him build.  This must be timed exactly on the last pixel you can build on on the first plane in which the lemming walks on.  If you are too late, the lemming will walk down the stair case and you won't be able to win.  If you are too early, the lemming will block himself out of the path forward or will get stuck in the ceiling.  If you do the first part right, the lemming should begin walking up the staircase.  After that, make the same lemming build so he ends up climbing the second set of upward steps.  Now you must make the same lemming a bomber when he is about 5 or 4 pixels from the vertical drop ahead of him.  When he drops down, you must make him dig.  If he starts digging but is off center, you have lost as you will not be able to get the lemming that ended up in the pixel gap below the uppermost one through the blocked area.  If the lemming you made a bomber was made a bomber at the right time and made to dig in the center of the vertical pixel gap, he should explode at a spot that will clear the way for the lower lemming to go on ahead.  Now you should wait until the lemming gets to the lake and is on the right side of it facing left.  Now make him build.  It is crucial here that you make the first brick the lemming puts down out over the water as to get a head start, so make him build as close to the water as possible.  Make him continue to build over the water.  The builder should complete the bridge across the water just in time to save the two lemmings walking through the lower passage of the level.  The builder should turn around eventually and go to the exit.

Yep, that's exactly how I solved it.

The part of the level I was talking about should be obvious.  :???:

I might be answering this a bit late, but Level009.dat #0 points to Mayhem 30.

I've just realised that in the LEVEL file (a subdirectory in WINLEMM), names it's levels in accordance to where they are in their corresponding Dos pack. You can then easily look at the level preview images to tell what that level is. Examples

LS0052.bmp = Level005.dat #2 = Triple Trouble
LS0077.bmp = Level007.dat #7 = Time to get up!
LS0011.bmp = Level001.dat #1 = Cascade

And as I've mentioned countless times before, The Oddtable.dat file in your Dos Lemmings folder contains the stats for the repeats. Now all we need is for someone to hack what levels are repeted. I could make a start on it, but I'm busy with Style Trial and the like.

Actually, this could all be old news to people like ccexplore and Mindless. Ah, well, I'm a little slow. :P

You can all get back to reviewing now ;P I might play a few in this pack, that first level looks goregous.

Isu, you can also determine this by simply opening Level009.dat in LemEdit (And you'll see that #0 is indeed "Rendezous at the Mountain" ). :P

Which level is that?  I haven't gotten that far yet.

I wasn't saying Isu is wrong. In LemEdit you only see the name of the level, though, not its place in Lemmings, so I just said the name.

...Erm...oops, I kinda missed that method. :-[

I knew that 0 in Level009.dat was Rendezvous at the Mountain

Timb03 - Level 2: So who's on first?
   
30 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 3 bashers, 5 diggers

Good: Uses a nice simple trick, and has nice scenery. The annoying digger is at the beginning.

Bad: Placing that digger can be annoying.

Timb03 - Level 3: THE DOMINATIVE IS THE INEVITABLE
   
80 Lems  
93% to save  
RR: 20
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 5 climb, 1 block, 7 build, 6 mine, 5 dig

Good: The terrain looks pretty cool. It's possible to save 100%.

Bad: The title appears to be intimidating, but the level is very easy! The correct route is blatantly obvious.

Wow, the neat scenaries in Tim's levels really gives Hubbart's levels a run for the money!  B)

Tim's levels have neat scenaries and I love level 3 of timb03.dat He has made such good levels that are fun to play.

Timballisto's scenery is excellent, I agree. However, the one thing that impresses me more about Hubert and Bart's levels is that you are involved in their scenery. Timballisto's scenery design is off to either side of the level (similar to the design of many of the original Lemmings levels), and you rarely interact much with it. But in all or almost all of Hubbart's levels, your lemmings walk through the scenery and interact with it. Having made that work without diminishing the challenge of the levels is what impresses me. (OK, I admit, many of their levels are fairly easy, but not all of them.)

I hope people will say nice things about the scenery in my new levels when I release them too :D I've been trying very hard to do it well. I know that I have some levels (like Twenty Second Teaser) where the scenery is unused, but to get round that I sometimes do copies of the level that involve taking a different route.

Are they for Custlemm?

No. :P Sorry.

I take they are for Cheapo then  ;P

Timballisto's levels have good design but my favourite pack is pack 2 because I love the level But it's down there. So who's up for reviewing the 4th level?

I'll look at Level 4



timb03 - Level 4: Right left ace spades & side ace

2 Lemmings
Save: 50%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 3 minutes
skills: 1 climber, 1 bomber, 6 builders, 1 basher

Good: Has good design,challenging,uses a small portion of actual terrain

Bad: Level can be annoying

Why is using a small portion of actual terrain a good thing, JM? I thought that level was easy, actually... Oh. Timballisto, could you explain the title for that level (4)?



Before I start the review/rant, I just wanted to ask Timballisto not to take any of this personally, because it isn't.

Timb03 - Level 5: The Selhajek Arbenition.
   
80 Lems  
77% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 4 climb, 4 bomb, 1 build, 1 mine

Good: Nothing.

Bad: Where to begin...

This level falls into a category that I don't have a name for yet, but here are the criteria the level must meet:

1) The solution must be extremely obvious. There is to be no flexibility as far as things that you can try to do.

2) The implementation of the solution must be annoying to pull off because of the precision needed.

3) The level must include unnecessary and/or unclear obstacles to achieving your goal. Examples include steel areas represented on normal terrain, non-steel areas represented on steel terrain, fake exits, hidden traps, fake traps, or requiring one lemming in a tight clump of lemmings to use a tool in a certain direction without giving a way to guarantee that all lemmings are facing the same way. Exception: The title or terrain or something about the level hints that something is not as you normally expect it, and this is at least somewhat clear.

4) The level must include repetition, and being imprecise once will require you to start over. Bonus, and a real teller: You must scream profanities at your monitor when this situation arises :)


Now, if a level has one of these, OK. I'd be hypocritical to say otherwise, as I break some of these myself (but only occasionally, I hope ;) ). Plus, there are some cool tricks that inevitably require precision. But when a level meets all four of these criteria, it is in my opinion a VERY BAD level.

This level meets all of these critera:
1) Your first move MUST use up the builder. You have ABSOLUTELY no other logical option other than making the very first lemming a builder to close off the right gap, then walk to the left, and fall to his death. Why even give the builder in the first place? Fill in the gap, cut out the builder, raise the save% required to 78% (this is how many I saved btw, so you'd be able to get 80% really), and call it a day. Then your only option is to climb and bomb. There is NOTHING else you can possibly do, especially as it is clear where you need to put the miner.

2) Timed bombers. Not a major offender in and of itself, but it doesn't help ;)

3) Steel areas over non-steel looking terrain. Of course, after my first try of the level failed, I just looked at the level in LemEdit to see where you decided to put the steel. Side note: this steel does not even add challenge to the level! You would still have to do #4 (below) if there were steel or not. Furthermore, even knowing where the steel is doesn't make the solution easier to execute.

4) 4 bombers, all timed. This level is not forgiving in the least.

If you think I'm singling you out, rest assured that I'm not. Conway's "Back and Forth" is a bigger offender of this list, and he's heard some of my rant before... But since these two levels pissed me off for whatever reason, I decided to see what they have in common, and came up with this list.

(continued on next post)

(continued from previous post)

Other comments:
What the heck is an arbenition? If you have no definition for it, I'll try spreading it as some slang term, but always with profanities involved. (That !@#$%!@ arbenition!)
For "good", I was thinking about putting terrain design, but I'd argue that it's actually the worst terrain design in the set (your dirt and other terrains are much more interesting), and the interesting-looking parts of the level are not used at all.
I don't think it's even possible to keep the level running for 7 minutes (the time limit). It's nothing important of course, just seems odd.

By the way, maybe you didn't consider this, but it's possible to destroy some of the "steel" by bombing a faller (because the steel areas are not under the fallers, they are only on the walls). In practice, this actually slows you down, and I don't think you can save 77% using this method, so don't worry about it, but I thought I should point it out. For a little while I thought that was what you must have to do, but only because I didn't want to count pixels to make sure they added up to 63 or less for a safe fall (in Custlem2); it is close though...

Comments on Lemmings in general:
One reason that I believe Lemmings is such a superior puzzle game is that you can be shown every piece of information that you could possibly need (the level terrain, tools, etc.), and figure out the solution just from that. There is no discovery *necessary* in order to solve a level. Of course, you learn tricks and such as you play through levels, see if certain timings work out, and all that good stuff. But you can put all obfuscation that you need to hide your solution in the terrain itself. The best levels are always those that show you all the information, look like they must be impossible (or, in some cases, simple), and cause some puzzling looks as nothing seems to work. There is a consistency throughout Lemmings that the player starts to rely on, and when that is broken, it is a violation of what you thought you knew. OK, so there's steel there even though it looks like normal terrain. Now, do I want to keep playing the level and guessing to find out where all the steel is, and to exactly where it extends? No, I want to spend my time thinking about how to take the tools I have and combine them to form a solution. I don't want to be spending an hour trying to time bombers and trying to remember exactly where that steel area ends. I'd much rather need to use my brain to think about a problem than use it to focus on precision. And I don't think that's just me!

OK. I'm done now :)

On the flip side, why should using a larger portion of actual terrain necessarily be better?  ;P

Cliche as it is, I'd say that it's not the size that matters.  What a pain it would be if every level has to be "large", or if you have to leave the blank space blank on "small" levels!  ;)  (Especially since unlike Cheapo, in CustLemm the game does let you scroll to the "unused" portions of the level.)

Well, I didn't mean to imply that it was a bad thing at all. It just seemed odd to mention as a good (or bad) thing, I guess. I don't know. You said yourself that size doesn't matter, so why mention it?

I was still in rant mode at that point so my tolerance for anything slightly strange was pretty low. :P

All right, this part of your rant is getting a little, hmm, what's the word?  Anyway, I can't tell you what it is either :D, but please be prepared to edit your post if Tim actually has something to say about the title.  ;)


<An aside to the general public unrelated to the level>:  if you use Windows XP and DOSBox, after capturing screenshots from DOSBox, you can open it up in MS Paint and zoom in.  Well, that's not much, but here's a nice feature, at least in the XP verion of Paint:  if you have the status bar turned on (it's in the "View" menu), when you draw lines or rectangles, the right side of the status bar will tell you what the horizontal and vertical distances are as you're dragging the mouse with the left button down.  A somewhat crude but effective form of sketching, in fact arguably better than Cheapo's since you can see exactly how many pixels without counting.  You can also cut and paste build bricks, but that's for another day.  I've done these sort of sketchings more than a few times, including for Wicked 6 and for Lemeri's "Spilled Pea Soup".

I was just providing counterpoint for interest, and inserting a side comment about size in general.

For the most part, when you see " ;P"s in my post it means you don't have to take it too seriously.  ;) (Or you could, whatever floats your boat.  ;P)

Incidentally, I must say, it's admirable how Shvegait is willing to spend so much time and words even when faced with a subpar level.  Definitely a dedicated reviewer.  I mean, if I were faced with a level that didn't really interest me much, I would probably just summarize and condense things down to something like "solution too straightforward, fake steel adds little value to the level, precision far too punishing" and move on to the next level (well, at least if the next one is better).

It's also funny that one inadvertent effect of Shvegait's lengthy comments is that, it actually made me spend time trying to make sure the only possible solution is really what the review presented.  Sadly, Shvegait does seem to be correct here, sorry Tim.  ;P

I do largely agree with this. However, if it comes to that, the designers of the original levels don't meet your very exacting standards; there's "Lost something?" and there are several levels that need bomber timing.

I think what's great about Lemmings is precisely the mixture of precision elements and brainwork. Can't get a lemming going the right direction to build the crowd out of a holding area? Work out a trick so you don't have to. Need some precisely timed bombers? Work out some landmarks, and try to calculate where you need to set them off. That's why I don't mind making bomber-timing and other "annoying" levels; but I try to mix them in with more puzzle-oriented levels, and of course many levels combine both elements.

However, the one thing I distinctly don't like is when a level is unfair. A hidden exit when there's no visible one is fair because you know the point of the level is to look for it. I think a couple of hidden traps, so long as you don't overdo them, should also count as fair, because the excitement of discovery and never being certain is one of the joys of the game. I don't like hidden steel or fake steel, because steel is always an area, and it can be really tedious if you have to work out the exact limits of the area. (Traps are technically also an area, I know, but one small enough to be thought of as a point; and also, you know the size of the area because it's the same for all traps of that type.) I think the opposite to this level -- diggable areas that look like steel -- is even less fair, because it's part of the set-up that you expect such areas to be steel, and you aren't even going to bother trying. It's like a chess-player looking for the best move; the brain edits out illegal moves so you don't even see them.

Incidentally, I'd also like to say that I loved the design of the level we're discussing; I can't see why you don't like it. You can say that it's all unused, but there has to be a balance -- some level ideas just don't require much space. I think it's better to leave decorative terrain unused in such cases than to lengthen the level for no other reason.

O_O ...uh...I think my lemmings levels might raise an angry mob if everyone was Shvegait.

Selhajek Arbenition.  Yes, this was one thing you didn't like right?  Well, I'll tell you now it has no real meaning.  Those syllables put in that order just happened to sound appealing to me, and I used it as the level title.   It was inspired by recent history classes and the Seljuk Turks ("Selhajek") .

As for the steel areas, I forget why I didn't put in steel on top of it, but I doubt it was for the confusion of the player.  I think it was for reasons involving scenery.  Oh, speaking of which, there are levels in my 4th pack in which there are steel areas that are unmarkable.  Please read the readme for it.  I believe I said that earlier.  I'll tell you where "QUICK EVACUATION"'s steel area is right now.  It under the right wall.  If you've played the level you should know where this is.

The other thing is, about the set solution.  Yes I realize that there is only one way to solve the level.  Yes I realize that all the logic falls into place itself.  However, is it not one of the goals of making  lemmings levels, to create a level without backroutes?  As ccexplore said before lots of lemmings levels are mostly precision based.  This was the case with this level.  For some reason I like precision levels.

I liked this level because of how you did the solution, not how you found out about it.  Oh, and the falling bomber thing gives reason for the gaps , and the gaps give reason for the builder.  Without gaps, the falling climber thing would work and then I would have a backroute.  Also, the gaps give incentive to build, as you stated earlier.  Because of this, the lemmings get those few extra pixels of height they need to get into the miner's tunnel.

If you don't like the level, that's fine.  I don't think I've ever seen someone go off on a lemmings level like that though.  O_O

Timballisto I like your levels, they have good designs, they have good title names, they are challenging and they use some good tricks.

No no, you aren't to take it personally. It's not your levels, it's this particular level.



Well, that was in the "Other comments" part. It was supposed to be separated from "Bad". I was just curious what it meant, since Google came up with 0 results :P



I'm not saying you had bad intentions, but you should at least consider the process in which players will think about your level.



The problem wasn't so much that there is a set solution. The problem is that the level is laid out in such a way that you can't even try any other method whatsoever. You must build, then you must climb (x4), then you must bomb (x3), then you must mine, then you must bomb. It is so plainly laid out that it is frustrating, because you must follow this rigid pattern that you can see by just playing the level once (assuming you know where the steel is).





Well, I will just say that it's best to create a balance of puzzle and precision. That's just my opinion (and Ahribar's too it seems). I will say that one of the levels in my first pack was like this: extremely obvious solution, all precision. But I scrapped it as soon as I realized it became just a hoop to jump through.



Huh? I'm talking only about the gap to the right. And the falling climber backroute is VERY easy to fix. Just add steel areas over the black areas next to the terrain. The fallers will have steel under the feet and won't explode.



Actually you only need a one-pixel height to be able to reach a miner's tunnel starting from the right-most area possible, so I don't think this is true. I wouldn't say you have an "incentive" to build. It's more like, you have NO CHOICE but to build with your first lemming.

Whenever I first look at a level that gives you a small amount of builders, I look for gaps that you must pass that give you no choice but to cross with a builder. Then subtract them from the amount you really have to work with. In this case it's 0, and in a lot of other cases it's like that too, but here it very clearly must be the first move with the first lemming.



Hehe. Well, one of the reasons was that I had to complete the level in order to review it, but the precision was pissing me off. :P So some of the rant may have been unfounded, but I don't think most of it was. I'm only trying to help. That's why we have this thread in the first place, right?

Eek, I don't want to come off sounding like some haughty Lemmings connosieur. (Really, I'm not.) There are exceptions, and these levels can be fun, for sure... But would you still play Lemmings if *every* level were that way? Besides, "Lost something?" gives you a hint in the title about the theme of the level. Plus it is the first and only level like this in Lemmings, so it is novel. There are no cheap tricks involved here. I wouldn't say "Lost something?" is a real brain-buster though...

Bomber timing isn't always bad. I use it in a few of my own levels and would be hypocritical to say otherwise. But bomber timing CAN be tedious and difficult.

And about my list of "bad things", there's no problem if a level has one or two of those, but if all four are present, I don't see how the level could possibly be fun.



Yes, there are tons of neat little tricks you can do that require precision, and this is one of the coolest things about (DOS, etc.) Lemmings. But when there is a level that is ONLY precision AND there is repetition invovled, it instantly becomes tedious. One or two precise moves? No problem. 10 precise moves and no puzzle? X_X



Exactly! This (steel on non-steel terrain) is what gave me a bad impression of the level to begin with (after playing it only the first time). The other stuff was just my rant because it was taking me too long to pass when it shouldn't have. :P



It's a matter of opinion. I don't care so much that so little of the level was used (all levels in this pack are like this, and it's the style of many of the original Lemmings levels)... The design of the level just didn't appeal to me I guess (compared to his other excellent designs).


Sigh... Now I can only imagine what scrutiny my own levels will be put under if we ever review them X_X


Out of curiosity, how long did it take anyone else (besides Timballisto) to pass the level? I'm curious what experiences other people had with the level.

Haha!  Don't worry about your levels.  If we review them, just because you hated this level so much doesn't make me want to jump on your levels every chance I get.  I give people a lot of breaks during lemmings play because I feel like it's hard to make a good level, so you get what you can think of.

For me, to beat that level in playtesting it took, about....um....30 to 40 tries or so.

No, it isn't. The exit's only in the most obvious place possible. But I have to defend "Lost something", because my forthcoming new Cheapo levels do include hidden-exit levels, one of which is much more difficult. (Still no cheap tricks, though.)

And no, I wouldn't want every level to be that way. Like I said, it's the variety that makes the game.  :D  I've done two hidden-exit levels for my sets already, so I won't make more.


You won't like my level "The Lemming Tower of Pizza", then; it meets your points 1, 2 and 4, or nearly so; there is a bit of a puzzle in that you have to work out how to do various things so as to meet the time limit. But as I said, I feel much more strongly about your point 3 than about the others, so I wouldn't ever make a level that meets all four. Nor would I bother to keep playing one; as you say, just no fun.

Oh, the 3rd point is definitely the biggest for me as well, they're not listed in any particular order. Combine it with the 1st point, and it's as if you're insulting the player's intelligence. The 2nd point just makes it annoying to pass, so you're spending more time on the level maybe than you want to, and the 4th point, for me, is the straw that breaks the camel's back, and it's the reason why I'll never finish Conway's "Back and Forth" (Cheapo LemEdit remake. His LemEdit version is shorter.)

By the way, "The Lemming Tower of Pizza" is a great title for a level :P

As an aside, I have several levels that break 2 or 3 of these points (Floating to safety...), but never #3. Well, OK, there is a hidden trap here and there, but they are in such positions that you'd know there must be a trap there or else the level would be too simple (or the title hints at the traps). Hmm, actually, I do have one level that breaks #3 in a different way (the direction selection issue), and it's a level I've wanted to replace, but haven't gotten around to it.

Well, enough of this :P How about we move on? Who wants to review Level 6?

I'll review level 6, after I pass it.(I haven't even tried it yet, but it shouldn't be too hard.)

Some comments related to  the ranting:
Hidden exit levels can have a puzzle, if you wan't to get the level over with as quickly as possible, you have to use an efficient method for finding the exit. Levels that have no puzzle and are just precision ARE annoying. Things like bomboozal and that one that looks like fun 6 but has no bockers are pointless.(Maybe they do have a point, they could make the player scream profanities...)

Timb03 - Level 6: Box of Lemmings-Econo Size
   
60 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 75
Time: 5:00
Skills: 19 builders

Good: Lots of nice-looking scenery. Good title.

Bad:
1)Obvious solution.
2)The time limit. (I finished with 2:34 left.)
3)Too much strait building. (1-2 minutes!)
4)The end is a bit annoying.

In fact, the only real challenge is containing and releasing the crowd, and that's not hard at all. [Sorry about all that, I just didn't like the level.]

The stair thingamajiggy on that level looks pretty cool. And I'd imagine that a fool would try to build to the top without thinking about height :P Perhaps it is a bit too similar to "Lemmings in the attic", though.



Timb03 - Level 7: The Box of Tranquility...or not
   
80 Lems  
47% to save  
RR: 0
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 10 builders, 1 digger

Good: You have to think about the best way to save and group the lemmings with limited tools. It's possible to save quite a bit more than needed.

Bad: Well, the box isn't symmetrical (the right side is narrower), but whatever. :P


Other comments: It's the only level without scenery!

You call that precision bombing?!?  :???:

When I think of precision bombing, I generally think of something where if you're off by one pixel you're screwed.  Bomboozal and Diet Lemmingaid are not precision bombings.

More importantly, since they're just about timing walkers, it's pretty easy to measure out the distance and then adjust on your next try.  On your first try you assign the lemming a bomber at the position you think is good, and use your hand [finger "A"] to mark the position the lemming was at when you assign the bomber.  Then use your other finger ["B"] to mark where the explosion occurs.  Now shift your hand right or left until B moves to where you want the explosion to occur.  Look at A, that's the position you should've start the bomber from.  This method does break down slightly when the path the lemming takes goes back and forth (as in Bomboozal, where at some point the lemmings will be at a place where they will turn around at least once before exploding no matter where they were assigned the bomber), but you can still use it to some extend.

I think of all the levels in original Lemmings, "Time To Get Up" is probably the least forgiving one in terms of timed bombing, and even there it's hardly a business of being screwed by a pixel (not counting the optimal solution of course).

Hmm.... since I can't play the level I don't know, but wouldn't the "Time to get up" solution work? Or would there not be enough builders?


Hey, thanks! :D

Well, for a lot of things I use something similar to the finger trick, only for really long miner tunnels I have a piece of paper that I folded so that one edge can go along a miner tunnel and show me where it goes.  I use it by putting it on the screen so the sides line up on the edges of the monitor, and then, poof!  Miner path shown.  My method with bombers?  Usually just really good guesses.  Either that or I use landmarks.  If you were really into lemmings accuracy then you couls tell the number of pixels the lemmings moves per second horix, and then vertical, and then come up with a formula for finding the exact position to bomb.  The only problem, I suppose, is the fact that you can't really tell what pixel a lemming is on even if you know the exact pixel you need to set the bomber on.  Does anyone know the solution to that one?

Yep, you have enough builders, and even a couple left over if you're not wasteful.

I completed "Time to get up" without using the solution.

I didn't say that those particular levels were precision bombings, just that they have absolutely no puzzle. Pixel precision bombings are like you said, one pixel off...and OOPS! (The ones that are hard to guess are particularly bad, like havoc 10.)

I'm guessing you meant that you didn't do it the lemmings solution way. It sort of sounds like you completed the level without completing it. O_o

I am proud of completing "Time to get up" without using the solution  :)

I'll look at Level 8



Timb03 - Level 8:Kauf, Kauft, Kaufen Sie...

Lemmings: 80
Save: 80
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes

skills: 99 climbers, 99 floaters, 99 bombers, 99 blockers, 99 builders, 1 bashers, 1 miner,
99 diggers

Good: Hard puzzle to solve,also good level title and good scenery

Bad: 99 Climbers,floaters and bombers? There's no more than 80 Lemmings on the level.

I'm not sure whether you mean without looking at the solution page or without using the particular solution shown on the page; but in either case, I didn't either :P

I didn't look at the solution page to complete the level. I completed it before I found out about Lemmings on the internet.

Good job, JM, although I think most people here didn't use the solution either :P

OK. So whose pack shall we review next? (Timballisto's packs have 8 levels in them.)

Shvegait would you want 1 of your packs reviewing?

Shvegait's levels are great! That would be fine with me.

Shveg01.dat would be a good pack to review wouldn't it? I agree that Shvegait's levels are great. I'm just waiting for permission off him to review them.

Sure, it would be good to have shveg01.dat reviewed :)

If someone doesn't have the pack, you can find it here:
http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/shveg01.dat

I'll comment on the first level



Shveg01 - Level 1:Just Dig?

Lemmings: 50
To be saved: 50
RR: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,4 builders,2 bashers,1 digger

Good: Not too hard since its the first level of the pack,good level design too

Bad: Can't find anything bad about this level

Fine.

I beat all 220 levels of both games without looking at a solution page, so there! :P

Even havoc 20? You must be persistent...

I'm sure you weren't the only one.  (Though I suppose the numbers are far fewer when it comes to the Mac version, thanks to its version of Mayhem 26.)

I've passed 219 without look at solution pages. Eventually I'll pass Havoc 20, but no motivation right now  :-(

Why? It's not hard. Oh, I admit, it looks really forbidding, but once you settle down to play it, after a bit of trial and error to work out where to start the bombers, it's a lot easier than several of the levels before it.

And it's all bomber timing and no puzzle, so a solution page wouldn't really help much :P

I passed all Levels in Original Lemmings,Oh No! More Lemmings and Xmas Lemmings without looking at the solution pages. They were hard but I still managed :D

I haven't passed all the levels in the Sega Megadrive version yet because that is at my friends house. I haven't got the full version of Lemmings 2 but I completed the demo of Lemmings 3-D.

So who would like to review level 2 of Shveg01.dat now I've reviewed Level 1?

I'll review level 2.

Go for it

Shveg01 - Level 2: The Big Drop

Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
RR: 90
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 5 of everything except miners and diggers

Good: Nice design, good distribution of skills. It's fun to watch the lemmings go to the exit. The extra builder allows for a little error.

Bad: The precision is annoying.

I'm not sure if the fact that the solution is fairly obvious would be good or bad. It is the second level in the pack so there isn't really anything wrong with it being obvious.

I find the precision annoying. It's one of them annoying levels.

Really? The solution I use doesn't require any precision. I know there are a couple of alternate solutions for this level, but I'm not sure what the precision is about. (For these first two levels, I wasn't too concerned about backroutes, as the levels are supposed to be fairly easy anyway.) Perhaps I should have bothered to enforce the intended solution...

Is your solution possible with just 1 floater?

I think I used all 5 floaters to help me complete the level. I found the pack hard to beat but Level 5 was the easiest for me to complete. I have to say that the levels in the pack have some really good designs I love them. They use good tricks too. Some I've never seen before.

Yes, it uses 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 5 bashers. Whenever I see a solution I try to get it to work until it does. Sometimes I realize it's impossible or that an easier solution exists (simlpy by looking at the level), and then is the only time I will leave a solution. What was intended anyway?

Well, I guess I will obfuscate it, although it isn't a big deal:

(Optional) Use 2 blockers at the top, and trap one lemming in between them. This makes it easier to free the crowd at the end. (Free the blocker to the left, which will be ahead of the crowd, who then frees the blocker to the right.)

Make the first lemming a floater. Build over the exit and hit the wall to the right (2x builders). Make the floater an athlete and climb over the pillars to the left. Build once to the left wall, then build once to the right to the large brick area. Bash through this, then build at the end to make a safe step for the rest of the lemmings. Free the blocker(s), and bash through the steps that you had to create to turn around initially.

That was the original solution, although there's also an alternate solution that uses more floaters and blockers but takes less time. (I didn't remove the possibility for that since it's only Level 2, and I wanted an easy warm-up kind of level.)

Now I wonder, with those tools, what is your solution?

I might have been able to save a basher but I didn't because I didn't want to risk the lemmings splatting. Here it is:

1)RR 99 after a few lemmings get out.
2)Make #2 a blocker on top of one of the triangle shaped hills.
3)Make #1 an athlete.
4)Make him bash very close to the stairs that lead up to the exit.
5)Make him bash again very close to the end of the hole created by bashing the first time.
6)Make him build once so he turns around.
7)Build to the left at the edge of the red block.
8)Build to the right when he turns around.
9)Make him bash when he is close enough to the wall.
10)Build near the edge of the end of the bash tunnel.
11)Make a lemming in the crowd bash under the blocker.
12)Make #1 bash to shorten the bridge. (may be optional)

Oops, 8) was a smiley.

Ugh, while I can't say I know the specifics of whatever scripting language they use to run this forum, I am seriously becoming more and more compelled to take a deep look at the smiley codes so we can fix problems like this once and for all.

Actually, what we really need is a "no smilies" tag.  You would think that if there's a checkbox to turn off smilies for the whole message, it should be relatively easy to turn smilies on/off within a message.

When is Level 3 being reviewed?

Do it yourself if you like!

It's a CGI board, so I think the amount of hacks you can do is limited.  I prefer PHP/mySQL boards myself, that's why I run an Invision Power Board, which has never had smiley problems. ;)

He doesn't seem to be online a lot so I could review it



Shveg01 - Level 3: Impasse

Number of Lemmings: 20
100% to be saved
RR: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 20 climbers,3 builders,5 diggers

Good: Hard level with a good amount of skills and lemmings

Bad: Level can be annoying

You get 5 diggers actually, not 3.

Thank you Shvegait. I've changed the 3 to a 5.

Too bad I can't beat any of this pack's levels,otherwise I would have revieuwed the next level.

Oh good (I haven't actually played or even examined the levels yet in LemEdit).  For a while I was worried about being stumped already by the third level (thereby presumably third easiest) in your set!

Very interesting levels, maybe I'll actually play them sometime in the future (not now though, can't you hear Ahribar's nagging me about the MIDIs? ;P)

I was able to pass the 5th level and that level wasn't too bad. Shvegait I'd love to see Pack 4.

Maybe I should review the 4th level of Shveg01.dat



Shveg01 - Level 4: Secret Hideout

Number of Lemmings: 60
To be saved: 90%
RR: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 6 climbers,6 blockers,6 builders,1 miner

Good: Level's hard and uses good set of skills

Bad: The solution is fairly obvious

I couldn't really find a way to obfuscate the solution and still require the trick.  :-(

I was meaning it's fairly obvious how you can find a way to complete the level.

Interesting.  During my earlier days of LemEdit 5-6 years ago (back when I created the LemEdit version of "If Only They Could Swim", which I do plan to release in LemEdit form eventually), I had a similar idea for a level, only on my level you have people climb up, then do the trick, and then build to go from one ____ to the next and then to the exit on top.  (Sorry if this is a little unclear but I'm trying not to reveal Shvegait's puzzle idea.)

I haven't planned to release that level though because I thought the precision is too annoying (although maybe it's partly because of how I setup the terrain), but maybe I can throw it into a "cut levels" set sometime in the future.  (Very far future, as I haven't even actually make the 10 levels I want to make yet.)

Please edit your post.  Some people might not want to accidentally read it, since you basically are giving away the solution to the level.

Note: that post was a reply to Shvegait, not to JM.  JM's post that gave away everything wasn't even there yet when I wrote.

Yes, JM, please do edit your post! At least put it in Wingdings if you wish. The solution isn't completely obvious to everyone at first glance.

It's been edited. Give me the link to Wingdings please.

Enclose your message in these tags:
[*font=Wingdings]

[*/font]

(Get rid of the *s though. Just needed to put them there so they wouldn't be treated as tags.)

If you don't have the Wingdings font, you can probably get it somewhere. But if you're running Windows, you already have it. (Incidentally, if you don't have it, you can probably read all the solutions that people put in Wingdings. I think it's safe to assume that most people have it though...)

The title of the level sounds good. I hope I can try it out.

Actually, the title for the canned level that I said uses Shvegait's trick is called "Elevator out of Service" (although that isn't necessarily the final title).

"If Only They Could Swim" has nothing to do with Shvegait's trick, it just happens to be the first level I made with LemEdit, while "Elevator out of Service" is basically the second.  I didn't want to release "If Only They Could Swim" though until I finish the 9 other levels that would go along with it in a set (as well as maybe improving its appearance).  I did however remake the level in Cheapo, you can download the Cheapo remake here:

http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/ifonlytheycouldswim.zip

It requires the Lem-Dirt style, if you don't have it download it here:

http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/Lem-Dirt.zip

Here's a preview (the one Cheapo shows):



(And sorry for hijacking the thread on this Shvegait.  ;P)

The secenery of the level looks good. So who's interested in reviewing the 5th level of Shveg01.dat because I have reviewed 3 levels already and people can't just let me to review the whole pack by myself.

Level 5 probably has several solutions (the least-tested level of this pack), and Level 6 has at least one, if not two (or more) backroutes (haven't been able to eliminate them elegantly. But, if you pass this level with a backroute, it will feel like a backroute.)... Level 7 has several solutions as well. So people should have little problem passing these 3, although maybe not with the intended solution. The difficulty will go up after that, though :devil:

@ccexplore: I've hijacked others' threads before, no need to apologize. :P

Shveg01 - Level 5: Diffusion


I've spent some time on this level and beat it with 96% of lems saved :)

Time:3 minutes
Lems:80
To save:80%
RR:90
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,8 builders,2 bashers and 5 diggers

Good:Nice symetrical design and the level looks really intimidating at first glance (after you found out that it isn't as simple as it looks maybe)

Bad:I think my solution was a backroute,if not,you could have set the number to be saved to at least 96% and cut of a few builders.

Yes, certainly that is a backroute. I'm not surprised that backroutes exist for this level (hey, I made it at something like 2 in the morning, and it was the last level of the pack. I just wanted to be done with it! :P Each of my packs has a level like this, unfortunately...), but I'm still curious what your solution was. Could you PM me?

The first few tries I played the level I failed but now I can complete it. It's one of the easiest levels in the pack. I love the design of the level. It looks simple but then I found there was demolecularisers and they kept zapping every single 1 of my lemming. Pretty good level. When I completed the level I saved about 86 or 87% of the lemmings.

I will look at Level 6 if that's okay.



Shveg01 - Level 6: Evacuation

Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 85%
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 Climbers,5 Bombers,20 Builders,5 Bashers,5 Diggers

Good: Good Solution,Good Scenery

Bad: Trying to reach the exit can be annoying

Whoops!

Can I ask what your solution is? (Please put it in Wingdings or something just in case ;) )

There is one backroute that involves bypassing the shredders by actually going between them, but I haven't found a clean way to fix this solution in CustLemm. In the Cheapo version, I just put two shredders on top of each other (one upside-down), and it eliminates this problem. However, the region of death in the Lemmings shredders is around the middle, so an upside-down one doesn't help much. And I kind of don't want the level looking too sloppy :P

There *may* be a builder-stretching backroute. To be honest, I haven't done very extensive testing on this level.  I completely changed the solution a few months ago, when I ported it to Cheapo (the original level was easier in some ways, but less interesting), so there may be backroutes that I haven't forseen...



Ohh, yeah. Before I forget... One of the remaining levels in this pack requires a Lemmings/CustLemm-only glitch. I won't say which, but it should be obvious enough...





Yeah, it's 5 Climbers. JM, stop messing up the skill section :P

That was by accident Shvegait hehe.

I didn't find Level 6 a bad level. It's a good one. I'll play on the cheapo one sometime. So is someone going to do Level 7?

Shveg01 - Level 7: Tempus Fugit

Time: 2 minutes
Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 100% (80)
RR: 70
10 climbers, 10 blockers, 10 bashers, 10 builders, 10 diggers

Good: Nice small scenery; Interesting level idea for the level.
Bad: Due to the plenty of skills it gets quite easy; title matches not so well because there's quite a lot of time left ;) (both, in general, and to build to the exit before the lemmings are down the 'loop').

I agree the scenery is good but the only thing is that the Lemmings fall through the water. I would say this was one of my favourite levels of the pack.

Well, it was the third level I made, and all of my solutions left you with only a few seconds left, but I can see of course that much more is possible. Still, if you're not thinking, the time will run out before you know it!

@JM: The reason for this is that if the water level were higher, it would become a precision thing with where to stop digging and where to start building. Since this was annoying, I lowered the water level, even though it is technically inactive now.

Okay dude. Thanks. I've probably seen that in other levels. I might look at Level 8 in a bit.

You can create "invisible" interactive objects by setting the "draw on terrain only" flag to true and make sure to place the object entirely on empty space.

Then maybe you can stack a few of these invisible shredders along with the visible ones (make sure the invisible ones have z-order lower than the visible ones), to completely fill up gaps in the region of death without affecting the appearance.

This of course might not be feasible if there's too much surrounding terrain so that there's no completely empty space for you to place the "invisible" shredders in.

Ah, that's a nifty idea. :) I kind of want to keep the surrounding terrain for this level how it is, though, but I'll definitely keep that in mind for any future levels that might be helped by it.

Forgot to mention:  the upside-down flag in LemEdit/CustLemm doesn't actually change the trigger area of the object.  It just draws the object upside-down, the trigger area is still at the same place it would be if the object isn't drawn upside-down.

Ah, yes. I did know that, but for the shredder it doesn't matter either way (as in, it even looks like the trigger area would be (roughly) the same).

Hmm, there might be some interesting hacks I can do with the level to deal with the trigger area issue without affect appearances.  No guarantees, but I'll try.

I do need a screenshot (e-mail or PM) from you  though that indicates where you would ideally want the areas of death to cover, just to make sure I understand.

Now It's time for me to review the 8th Level



Shveg01 - Level 8: Comic Book Heroes

Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 70
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 10 Blockers,20 Builders

Good: Level name suits the scenery and a good set of skills to leave level

Bad: The level is fairly simple

JM, could you PM me your solution to Level 8? (And Level 6, also, I think you missed when I asked that.)

I'll privately message you how I could complete Level 6 and 8.

Maybe that was the old version of Level 6 (see if the screenshot matches up)? I can't imagine having enough builders to do it that way and still saving 85%  :???:

That probably was the old version of level 6.

Hmm. I'm not convinced that you actually passed Level 8. It sounds audacious for me to say that, I know, but I don't see how your solution would work...

speaking of version:  Shvegait, e-mail me (or post a link to) the latest version of your .DAT file too so that I don't end up working on an outdated set (for the invisible shredder thing).

OK. You can find it at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/shveg01.dat
(Last Updated May 1st)

Though I think the only two people to play an older version of this pack were JM and Conway :P

Is shveg04.dat still being worked on?
I'd love to try out that pack

I can review level 9



Shveg01 - Level9: a stitch in time saves nine...

Number of Lemmings: 54
To be saved: 9
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 of each

Good: Level can be completed on time

Bad: Level not too hard

I'll go ahead and do Level 10



Shveg01 - Level 10: Hit the slopes!

Number of Lemmings: 60
To be saved: 90%
RR: 50
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 floaters,1 bomber,5 blockers,1 builder

Good: Nice scenery and good set of skills

Bad: level isn't too hard as it's the last level of the pack

Hmm. Could you post or PM your solutions to these levels? They're probably backroutes, because 8, 9, and 10 are supposed to be the hardest levels in the pack, but the bad thing about them was that they were pretty easy (although JM's solution to Level 8 does not work! I'm still in disbelief that your solution actually worked...). So if there are backroutes, I'd like to know about them so I can eliminate them...

Yep. I had a bit of a chuckle at how many of these levels were supposedly "easy" -- 8, 9, and 10 took me a while, all of them, and I can't say I remember the solution to any of them offhand.

Well, I have to say, I reviewed a level of those because I like the style of the levels, expecially the short ones.
Actually I wanted to review more than just one, but unfortunately I hadn't so much time to play them and the only one I solved quite quickly was Level 7. (I have to say, it's the only one I solved yet. But for a few of the others I think I know how to do it though.)

Wow, I have been away! I don't know how many packs have been reviewed since I last posted. So which one are we doing next?

Only Timb03 and Shveg01 have been reviewed since your last post... with a loooooot of discussion of stuff in between  X_X

Let's see, we could review one of Dragonslover's packs (Mikepak) or one of Tumble Weed's packs.. we could do a second pack from Insane Steve, or Conway, or Garjen.. Anyone have any requests?

TWPAK11.dat or Isteve07.dat are good choices.

Well, as Moderator, you can ban or remove reviews that are inaccurate.  Inaccurate reviews do a disservice to the level designer and people who might try the level, and therefore are about as good as spam.

Hmm, since JM had played an earlier version of the pack, he may have used a direct-drop backroute to Level 10 (no longer possible), and thus concluded that the level was easy. Or, maybe he really did figure it out right away and managed to pull it off easily... He has yet to post/PM his solution so I don't know.

However, I am fairly confident that JM did not pass Level 8. This level is the red flag for me as to whether someone has actually played through and passed the levels or just thinks they know what the solution is. If you've played and passed the level, you know what I'm talking about.

For MC Marshy's review of Level 9, it could very well have been a backroute, I can't really comment without more information, but I found it funny that the only good thing to be said was that the level is possible (shouldn't that be a given?) :-(


One rule for this thread that maybe should be brought up is that you cannot review a level unless you have beaten it! (As in you got enough lemmings in the exit(s) to pass the level...) It seems obvious enough, but I have a suspicion that this hasn't always been followed. (Exception: the level is verifiably impossible. We haven't run into one of those yet, and likely won't.)

Insteve07.dat looks good, but my version seems to be corrupt! Anybody have a download?

 And I don't think you can call it spam if somebody found a level easier than most, or if they found a backroute. It is spam, however, if a level is reviewed by somebody who has not passed it, since it goes against the rules of the game.

Ok, IS07 will work just fine.

As for the download, My Useless Website has all my LemEdit packs, not corrupted. I don't think they are, at least.

Cool thanks!

 Unless anybody has any objections, shall we do Insteve07.dat?

 
 Isteve07.dat level 1 - Give a Little Bit of Help
 Save: 48/60
 Time: 5 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Climbers: 2
   Bombers: 3
   Blockers: 2
   Builders: 4
   Bashers: 2

 Good: A neat little display of the famous climb-and-bomb trick.

 Bad: Not very challenging when you know the trick. (However, still good to start the pack.)

Yeah Conway, I agree, but JM's solution to Level 8 was what you know *can't* work (well maybe you don't remember, it was a long time ago when you played it :P )



ISteve07 - Level 2: _-=/Up In The Stars/=-_
   
80 Lems  
90% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 5 climbers, 1 bomber, 30 builders, 10 diggers

Good: Cool scenery, you have to use diggers to "bash", you can tackle a few of the obstacles in several ways, and you can save 100% :)

Bad: Well, it's a bit long I guess, with lots of building.

Unfortunately, there aren't very good ways to tell whether someone has really passed the level or not.  It so happens that recent events indicated that there are some suspicions about someone's easy "solution" to a particular level.

Note that I never said to ban reviews that discover backroutes etc., I merely said reviews that are inaccurate.  I know there's little basis at this point for ISteve to actually take the drastic actions I mention, but I do want to underscore that inaccurate reviews are not appreciated and should be regarded as contemptuously as spam.

I think I did complete Level 8 and 10 of shveg01.dat ages ago and it was the old version. You can't always tell if somebody has passed a level or not. You can try passing JM16.dat which is my newest levelpak. That is supposed to be my bestest levelpak I created. JM17.dat is still being worked on.

I beat Level 3 of Isteve07.dat and now I can review it  ;P



Isteve07 - Level 3: Four pillars and a trap

Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 95%
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 of each

Good: Has a good solution and cool decoration

Bad: Takes 2 minutes to complete and RR is too low

Isteve07 - Level 4: The Annoying 1-pixel Gap

Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 90%
RR: 20
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 10 of everything except builders.

Good: Plenty of room for error. Nice use of bomber timing, not too easy and not too hard. Possible to save more than required.

Bad: Time limit, I finished with well over two minutes left.

I finished the level with a minute left. The first few times I played this level I didn't know how to play it.

I'm checking the next level. I don't know what A JUGAR! means



Isteve07 - Level 5: A JUGAR!

Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 40
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,2 bombers,5 builders,3 bashers,3 miners

Good: A nice challenging level with a good solution

Bad: Time limit,took me 3 minutes to complete the level and I saved 41/80 Lemmings

"¡A jugar!" means "to play" in Spanish. It might mean something slightly different when it's just by itself as an exclamation.

Thanks Shvegait!
The Name suits the level although it took me a few tries to complete
Has anybody passed the 6th level of the pack?

A+infinitive, in Spanish, usually means "Let's [verb]!" As a sort of informal commandish thingy. At least, I THINK that's how it works.

 I did it in about 2:30 and saved 52.

 (Ha-ha! My backroute-finding days are back! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! :devil:)

I know that over 50% is possible in 7.5, although I don't think I've ever managed 65%... you said it was a backroute?

Isteve07 - Level 6: Surrealism

Number of Lemmings: 70
To be saved: 90%
RR: 70
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 3 builders,3 bashers,3 miners, 3 diggers

Good: Title matches very well ;) ; A random looking level which isn't actually that random (at least I think it's not planned to be); gives some room for error
Bad: Not really hard (I went the way under the webs; if it is a backdoor, I call simply this fact as bad ;))

About level 4: I wonder where you used bomber timing; I just used the climber bomb (and I wouldn't call it 'timing').
Did you use it to pass the 'vertical one-pixel gap' at the top? EDIT: I just noticed that it seems to be intended to use a second climber bomb. I passed the 'vertical' gap at the top using a complicated method with bashers, miners, diggers and blockers to get up there.
Also, using direct drop is possible, which saves a lot of time.

 Isteve07 level 7 - Annoyance (part 2)
 Save: 10/10
 Time: 8 minutes
 RR: 99
 Skills:
   Climbers: 1
   Bombers: 2
   Builders: 2
   Bashers: 1
   Diggers: 2

 Good: A nice deceiving design. A unique level where you have to realise what not to do and just play it simply.

 Bad: Why do we need 8 minutes?

Have you tried to change the graphic set? I'm curious to see if the level was made before in a different graphic set, then changed here and modified a little bit.

Because... changing the graphic set of a level by keeping the stats gives a new strange level to play and is more challenging! Have you tried sometimes? ;P

That's a funny idea.

And yes, indeed, you're right: It's Tricky 1 "This should be a doddle!"
Some slight terrain/object changes, and the skills changed.

I thought Surrealism was a hard level to complete. I now know how to complete it and will have an attempt to do it later. I think I know how to get past Annoyance (Part 2) . It indeed is true if you open up Surrealism in Lemedit and change the terrain set to the dirt graphics it is Tricky 1: This should be a doddle. I remember doing that ages ago when I was looking through several levels I downloaded. I think I have a level similar to Surrealism. JM16 - Level 2. I changed the terrain set to the Pink graphics. I might do that with another level someday and do a bit of editing. I hope Insane Steve doesn't mind me opening up a level from the Original Lemmings,changing the terrain set and doing a bit of editing.

That level is actually a contest entry.  That was the one level I tested out of the two I got.  Sorry.  I did end up beating it....how the heck is the pixel gap level possible??????

By going the long way around I assume, I've yet to play this pack but I will do at some point. Maybe now...

Good idea Isu   :P

I must try and pass Level 6

ISteve07 - Level 8 - Mental Process



Number of Lemmings 60
90% To Be saved
Release rate 50
Time 5 Minute

Skills: 5 Climbers
         5 Floaters
         5 Bomber
       30 Builders
         5 Bashers
         5 Miners
         5 Digger

Good: Very sneaky trap and it uses another trick I like, and a few miners. :D

Bad: Long and tedious. The miners/builders take forever and yup, another climb-bomb

Oh no...I think I see a major backroute for level 8...I'll go test it...

Interesting reaction, I tend to go "oh yes" instead when I found a backroute, unless it was in my own levels of course.  ;P

I said "oh no" because Insane Steve obviously did his best to prevent it. The basic idea is, go through the steel. It turns out that I actually found a new glitch (this makes the backroute much more excusable). I saved 100% with 3:00 left. :P

ISteve07 - Level 9: Bash and no time
   
80 Lems  
25% to save  
RR: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 50 bashers

Good: Aptly named title, with an allusion to "Fall and no life". Takes a while to figure out the optimal route ;)

Bad: Well, the trap on the top-left is non-functional.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee......I tried it again, and finished in 1:23. I might have been able to shave of 5 seconds but not much more. I expect Insane Steve will want to know what this backroute is. ;P

Level 8, Mental Process is the one level I can't seem to figure out. I've checked all the steel is genuine in LemEdit, and checked for hidden exits. A lemming can't float through the gap because of the trap. The solution I tried was building from the bottom of the wall to the left, but the lemming hits his head on the metal ceiling before he reaches the floor.

 A enjoyed figuring out level 9 thought. That one's fun, and it reminded me of my 'Great Wall of Lemmingland'.

 I've looked at level 10, and it looks like a simple task of finding the most economic use of the builders.

When I played on Level 8 I set the release rate to 99 then back to 50. I turned the 4th lemming into a blocker then the other 3 into floaters before they fall. The trap killed 1 and the the other two were safe. One reached the exit. I ended up losing on the level. The scenery is Level 8 is also cool looking and the scenery of Level 9 is aswell.

Damn! Such an obvious trick! How could I miss it? >:(  I'll go try it out now.

Insane Steve also said he was working on a tenth pack and only 3 levels have been made. I think I know how to complete Level 8 but I always fail. I almost finished Level 9 but I lost  :-(

"Mental Process" took me a while to figure out too (on the Cheapo remake), and I had to use the hint; but then, my mental processes have never been as good as yours :D at least when it comes to solving Lemmings.

Incidentally, completely off-topic, but I've just finished a new extremely difficult "Just a Minute" level -- I just had to blurt that out because I'm so happy with it, I can't wait to be able to show it off to you!

Cool! Are you going to upload it, or wait to put it in a pack?

Or did you... Maybe there is a better route you are not seeing.

I just passed Mental Process only killing one. Thank you JM!

At the moment I'm waiting for ccexplore to finish the music to my styles :P

We now return to our regularly scheduled discussion.........

It's all good Conway :D

Nice, level 10 is still left for me ;)



ISteve07 - Level 10: If only they could swim
Number of Lemmings 80
95% To Be saved
Release rate 20
Time 7 Minutes
Skills: 10 of everything

Note: I don't want to give away too much in my review...
Good: Really nice design, fairly misleading.
Bad: Quite a bit cheap trick used, isn't it?

For level 4 (The Annoying 1-pixel Gap) I'm quite sure that it's possible to lose just one. I'll try it out.
Level 8 I also solved the Cheapo remake first, so I know how to do it. Had taken me some time to figure out. In Cheapo it's much more comfortable because of the FF function. ;)

geoo89 please could you PM me the solution for Level 10. I dont know how to pass it. I know how to solve the levels of the other pack it's just this last level I can't complete. The name of the level is a good 1 similar to that of 'If only they could fly' off the original Lemmings.

Now we have done a second pack of IS's we can review a new pack. We could do one of Dragonlover's or Tumble Weed's or one of the VTM levelpaks couldn't we?

Well, sorry, but you failed :P

geoo89 your solution worked I passed Level 10 :D

Now what levelpak shall we review next?

I suggest reviewing one of Tumble Weed's packs...I've seen nice levels among those :)

:) well if you wanna do my levels i suggest you do my TWbestof set...:D

I though we were going to do TWPAK11.dat

I have tried all the levels from your best of pack and I couldn't beat a single level,I don't even have any clue on some levels (especially the time limits interfere with my attempts)...

So I guess it's a perfect pack to review...by the real lemmings experts :)

well the thing with most of my levels is that they have multiple entrances and a short time limit...but i garuntee they are all possible

I could beat Sculpture Maze. The levels are quite hard tho. I don't know how to beat the rest. I could beat levels on your other packs.

I'm up to level 7 'Three times the fun'. The only one I've skipped is 6 - 'Stalker'. So I've passed 1-5.

Cool levels, Tumble! I guess that's why it's your best-of pack.

Twbestof - Level 1: Sculpture Maze

Number of Lemmings: 1
To be saved: 1
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 of each

Good: Good scenery with good solution

Bad: Solution is fairly obvious

...obvious?  Are you quite sure about that???  I just looked at the level for about 10 minutes and I haven't realized it yet.

You will probably find out the solution after a few tries. If you can't find it I'll PM you the solution.

Maybe take a break and look at it again later and you'll solve it.



TWbestof - Level 2: The Lemming Factory
   
10 Lems  
100% to save  
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 4 bashers, 1 digger

Good: You really have to watch out for that time limit.

Bad: Despite the time limit, it's still rather straightforward.